From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Sun Sep 12 2004 - 14:54:47 BST
Dear all,
Sam wrote 11 Sept.:
'It is my belief that language, properly understood, is the equivalent at
the social level of DNA at the biological level.' and
'the idea that the fourth level is about "the manipulation of symbols" comes
crashing down ... What is a symbol if not a "clear and distinct idea"? And
how can it be manipulated in the way that Pirsig wants (eg in higher
mathematics) if there is no social lebensformen within which the rules
governing that manipulation can make sense? Once more, I think Pirsig's
conception of the fourth level has more holes than a piece of fermented milk
from a mountainous canton in central Europe.....'
There doesn't simply 'is' a social level of which we can determine THE
equivalent of DNA at the biological level. Different versions of the MoQ can
define the social level differently and the basic, 'machine language' type,
pattern of value of the social level differs accordingly. The way Pirsig
defined the social level (if he did clearly define it, which I doubt) isn't
really relevant. We can and should develop our unerstanding of (what is the
most useful version for us of) the MoQ beyond what he wrote.
If language should be 'properly understood' to be the basic building block
of the social level, I would suggest to define it in a way that doesn't
presuppose that 'language' always implies manipulating symbols. More
primitive language may just derive from showing specific emotions (e.g. fear
for a large predator) in a specific way (e.g. baring one's teeth or making a
specific type of sound). It becomes (primitive) language when this becomes
group behaviour and members of that group can 'read' emotions from other
members from their expressions. The expressions do not symbolize anything
yet; they just communicate emotions (whatever has positive or negative value
for group survival).
I can agree to some extent with calling language, thus understood, the
equivalent at the social level of DNA at the biological level. I would
prefer however to generalize: For me (in my version of the MoQ) the basic
building block of the 3rd level is habitual behaviour (of which expressing
emotions/perceived value in a specific way only an example). Individual
habits (behaviour copied from one's own past) maintain one's social roles
and collective habits maintain societies.
With friendly greetings,
Wim
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