Doug Renselle (renselle@on-net.net)
Thu, 23 Oct 1997 05:06:07 +0100
Hi! Magnus and TLS,
Magnus Berg wrote:
>
> Hi Doug,
>
> Doug Renselle wrote:
> > Where I get confused on the levels and their contexts is when I hear
> > some of TLS say that the lower level is not 'aware' of its next
> higher
> > level. I find many examples in Lila where Phaedrus asserts just the
> > opposite.
>
> Newsflash for me, could you point at some so we can start thrashing.
>
Magnus,
To me there are three glaring examples in 'Lila' of the social level
being aware of the intellectual level:
1. Pirsig's extended discussion on the battle between the Zuni priests
and the brujo. The social immune system was 'aware' of the new
intellectual pattern threat to their control by the brujo's new ideas.
2. Pirsig's brief mention of the same thing happening to Joan of Arc.
3. Pirsig's brief mention of the same thing happening to Galileo. This
example certainly juxtaposes the Catholic Church condemning Galileo for
his intellectual threat to their non-intellectual flat-earth-centric
traditional social patterns. Many within the Church then and now
condemn intellectual freedom of belief and/or thought.
I see these as examples of a lower level keenly aware of a higher level.
I also think there are other examples of other levels, too.
See if these are adequate to answer your question. If not, I shall do
more homework.
Doug.
> > Another time when I get confused is when I hear some of you (Magnus
> most
> > recently) ask the question, "Are the levels absolute or otherwise?"
>
> I asked it because I sensed the confusion where I have no doubt. And
> this
> might be because I haven't thought about it enough. I was trying to
> get
> to your unanswered questions.
>
Magnus,
In the 'Lila' review I did last April for Amazon I mentioned scaling.
Let me try an example to see what you mean by absolute. Seems that
other TLS members have already averred something like this, but I can't
recall who/when.
If I said that there is social 'behavior' in either of the two lowest
levels, you would disagree, right?
Is that a good example?
Magnus you sure challenge my penultimate level!
Mtty,
Doug Renselle.
> > What he is giving us is balance between static and dynamic quality.
> > This is critical!
>
> Yes, this is the same as the path of evolution I talked about last
> week.
>
> Magnus
>
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>
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