LS Re: Bodvar & God


Magnus Berg (MagnusB@DataVis.se)
Sun, 7 Dec 1997 18:44:29 +0100


Hi Mark,

>> First of all, I think that all
>> levels have no idea about any higher levels. Inorganic patterns are
>> not aware of organic manipulation and so on. So, we wouldn't
>> intellectually be able to see any higher levels.
>>
>True, but even though we cannot visualize hyperdimensions it doesn't
>preclude us from doing the math. I think you are suggesting the
>hypothesis has no intellectual value because it is incapable of being
>understood intellectually. Does this mean that any superstructure that
>might exist above the intellectual level is de facto meaningless to us?

No, not meaningless. We just wouldn't be able to tell it apart from DQ.

>> Second, since this higher level is not definable, Mystical experiences
>> would hardly be mystic if they were defined, it is not a static level,
>> hence Dynamic Quality mediating intellectual patterns.
>>
>We cannot intellectualize a level above the intellect, I agree. But it
>may be static from it's point of view. If we were only intellectual
>creatures, I would say that you're explanation that they are just DQ
>mediating intellectual patterns is sufficient. But we are more than our
>intellect. That which is before our intellect is not intellectual,
>social, biological, inorganic, and it is also not DQ, which is something
>much greater, the source of all things.

Supposing we are more than our intellect - which I think we're not, but
never mind - you have to remember that this level must use intellectual
patterns for its own purposes. It must also be dependent on intellectual
patterns to sustain itself. Maybe a spiritual level would, maybe not.

Maybe I'm too submerged in intellectual patterns in the same way
Victorians were submerged in social patterns.

I'll be frank here (I usually am :-), the name "spiritual value" rings a
bell
for me, connecting it with religious holier-than-thou mentality. Jehovah
and people from other churches came home to me and tried to convince
me to join them. When they noticed that I was into science, they tried
to convince me using scientific arguments. But they always got the
bottom
line of those arguments from the Bible. To me, that says two things.
1) They close their eyes to observations whenever they conflict with
the Bible. 2) They don't use their intellect when they don't have to.
They
think it's already in the Bible so why bother. Giving up like that is
something that really appalled me.

That is one reason why I back off when I hear "spiritual value". If it
means giving up on the intellectual level before we completely gained
everything we can out of it, then I don't think it is more moral than
intellectual patterns. It sounds more like a side-track and such
tracks does not exist in the MoQ.

        Magnus
>

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