Doug Renselle (renselle@on-net.net)
Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:48:22 +0100
The Lila Squad,
Recent posts at the site tell me that we are still having trouble with
the Quality definition issue. I took Martin's re-post and pulled a
couple of topics from it for further discussion. I treated each topic
as a question and then answered each from my personal MoQ viewpoint.
Begin questions and answers:
Does Lila have quality?
-- SOM view: No. None of her objective properties are quality
properties.
-- MoQ view: That is the wrong way to ask the question. The MoQ way
to ask that question is, "Does Quality have Lila?" If you ask me that
question, my answer is "Yes!" From the MoQ view Static Patterns of
Value inhere no properties. SPoVs are in Quality. Their relationships
manifest properties we assess as Quality or not.
Is Lila an angel of quality?
-- SOM view: No.
-- MoQ view: Lila is of Quality. All SPoVs are of Quality.
Can Quality be defined?
-- SOM view: None given.
-- MoQ view: Part of it can be defined. The Static Quality part may
be defined. The existence of the Dynamic Quality part may be defined.
The interrelationship of Static Patterns of Value to Dynamic Quality may
be defined. The essence of Dynamic Quality may not be defined by finite
intellect.
Pirsig defined the Metaphysics of Quality by giving it an architecture
called MoQ which is much different from the architecture of SOM
reality. He showed us how SPoVs are born, interrelate, and evolve in
Dynamic Quality. He showed us the 'interrelationships' of SPoVs to
Dynamic Quality. He did not show us the total definition of Dynamic
Quality. To do so would make Dynamic Quality finite. To do so would
make Dynamic quality an intellectual possession of finite-intellect
sentients. Dynamic Quality may not be possessed (by sentients) in the
MoQ. That is the big mistake that SOM types make. They believe that
quality is inside things rather than vice versa. Dynamic Quality may be
'experienced,' but not completely defined in the MoQ.
Is Quality really just two things, as some espouse: a pre-intellectual
moment and Static Quality?
-- SOM view: None given.
-- MoQ view: It is two abstractions, but not THOSE two abstractions.
Pirsig defines Quality in two divisions; Dynamic Quality and Static
Quality. Static Quality composes Static Patterns of Value. We do not
know the composition of Dynamic Quality. We experience Dynamic Quality
via a pre-intellectual moment at the edge of NOW.
Does Quality inhere in objects?
-- SOM view: Yes! All objects are defined by their inherent physical
properties.
-- MoQ view: No! All patterns of value are in Quality. Patterns of
value are defined in Quality by their interrelationship properties with
other patterns of value.
End questions and answers.
I think for some of TLS these questions and answers are still
unresolved. But it is very important that we have some semblance of
concord here! Please state clearly if you disagree with the above.
Mtty,
Doug Renselle.
-- " But quantum theory has destroyed the idea that only properties located in external physical objects have reality."Robert M. Pirsig, page 14 in his paper "Subjects, Objects, Data and Values," presented at the Einstein Meets Magritte conference, Fall 1995.
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