LS Re: Principles - Update


Hugo Fjelsted Alroe (alroe@vip.cybercity.dk)
Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:48:15 +0100


On the principles:

>3. Dynamic Quality and static quality.
>The best way to divide Quality is into patterns of Dynamic and static
>value or experience. Dynamic Quality is pure unfiltered experience.
>Static quality is stable distinguishable experience. Dynamic Quality
>creates the world; static quality preserves it. Dynamic Quality is more
>pleasing than static quality. Dynamic Quality is more moral than static
>quality.

Magnus said:
>You can't compare DQ and SQ, it's like comparing green-ness and mass.
>Too much DQ is chaos, too much SQ is stagnation. Why not cut the
>principle after "Dynamic Quality creates the world; static quality
>preserves it."? I like that.

I second that.

And I think this is very close to what Doug R. says below. Is this correct,
Doug?:
>My literal interpretation of Pirsig's words, cast forward in time from
>1974 to now tells me that he is saying this: Quality is definable and
>undefinable. The part which is definable is Static Quality. The part
>which is undefinable is Dynamic Quality.

>5. Static awareness.
>Each higher level evolved from the lower level but has become a discrete
>level. From the point of view of any level it is only possible to
>evaluate phenomena at that level.

I don't quite understand the last sentence - is this the same as the
argument that higher levels cannot be seen from lower, or does it go in the
other direction as well? I think higher levels do value elements of lower
levels.

>8. Dependency.
>When a higher level attempts to assert its moral dominance over a lower
>level, it must be careful that it does not endanger the stability of the
>lower level on which it ultimately depends for survival.

This could perhaps be formed as a rule, I dont like the 'must be careful'
form; something like:
A higher level can only dominate a lower level in so far as it does not
endanger ...

>9. Evolution.
>To create ever higher levels of awareness, Dynamic Quality strives for
>freedom from all static patterns. Freedom is the highest Good in the
>Metaphysics of Quality. Life is migration of static patterns of quality
>toward Dynamic Quality.

I would say the exact reverse of the last sentence ( Life is migration of
Dynamic Quality toward static patterns of quality) and yet the first form
has some merit too. This has to do with the distinction between a primeval
sort of dynamic quality and a conditioned sort of dynamic quality, or
rather, this has to do with what the static-dynamic split tends to hide of
the nature of quality. Dynamic quality is the potency of becoming,
initially unbounded, but as the reality becomes real, dynamic quality is
bounded by, as well as founded on, what has become real. Yes, the dynamic
quality of intellectual freedom has arisen through evolution, but it has
arisen only because the necessary static patterns which may support (give
rise to) such intellect have evolved. Perhaps we could say that Life (here
taken to be something like the creative evolutionary processes of our
world) is the migration (or a movement or simply evolution?) of Dynamic
Quality from the uniform unlimited (in both senses, without any bounds on
what it can be and without any innner limits or differences,
un-differentiated that is) towards the complex unlimited.
This is only a tentative formulation, but the issue is pivotal in my
understanding of Metaphysics of Quality.

>11. Proof.
>It is impossible to refute that Quality is reality without asserting a
>value.

I do not much like the 'proof' idea. Any internally consistent system can
provide such proofs (though not all proofs - Goedel), this is the strenght
of the extreme 'subjectivcism' - solipsism, for instance, but that does not
tell us anything on the practical usefulness of the system. I think the
idea of a proof of MoQ goes against what MoQ is about.

I have not had time to check this against the views of Pirsig, but I am
sure others can enlighten me :-)

Thanks to Diana for providing this common basis for a further discussion of
the principles.

Regards

Hugo
alroe@email.dk or alroe@vip.cybercity.dk

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