Hello LS,
Dave has written a very interesting note about (A)war, {(B) Critics of both ZZM
and Lila, female's view and comments about Lila.}
(A): About war:
Unfortunately war has been an integral part of the human condition, and for those
of us mortals who try not to think about it, but that doesn't mean that we don't
care or worry about it.
Before I read this e-mail, I had written a comment about war and had come close to
the same conclusion that war is 'War is Dynamic Quality' but had said that is a
'very low dynamic quality pattern value' and that there had to be a better way.
My comment was in an answer to Miche D'Alessio's comment
>[Michele wrote:
>'Basically I believe that the essence of power is the struggle , the
>fight for power, the war for power ; but beware !!
>War was for the Greeks 'polemos', which today is polemic, but for Heraclitus
>was an highly positive value in the order of the world.']
>Carmen: to that [Carmen had written :
>War is a very low Dynamic Value Pattern involving the massive
>destruction of Static Value Patterns.
>At a Human Level 'Basic Goodness' (the MOQ) tells us that there has to
>exist a better way*.
>*The pursuit of a higher level of Quality is the "better way".
>David L Thomas wrote:
>THE POWER OF WAR
>[Kevin}
> > Thus killing the Native Americans was immoral because it wasn't
> > the most dynamic option available. Working with the Native Americans or
> > leaving the Native Americans alone would provide much more dynamic options
> > on a social level.
> [Dave]
> >This post is not directed specifically to Kevin, not because his opinions are
> >not insightfully, but rather as indicated by this post and previous posts both
> >here and in MD his position is clear on this issue. What's yours?
>
> >What if: "it wasn't the most dynamic option available" is false?
Carmen: Human beings are at the mercy of the Power of Evolution, Darwin's law of
the fittest ( we are all too familiar with his theories). Let's don't forget that
the European Setters brought to the Americas Biological weapons, which they didn't
know they had ( illness caused by contagious germs such as chicken pox, the
missiles to name a few). The american people didn't have the antibodies to fight
such plagues, but the europeans had been in contact with the germs/viruses and
their immune system had already built antibodies to better confront the
illnesses.I don't take sides about this conflict. I just look at it and conclude
that it was indeed a struggle to survive and it looks like the europeans had the
odds on their favor. 'So be it'. Colonization then came easier to the white
settlers because they had better weapons and had a better biological immune
system. But, if History has something to teach us (and it has), that is that every
great civilization has had its rise and fall and is only a matter of time before
this so called western civilization will meet its Sunset. UNLESS, unless, we can
adopt a system of life where we look to the past, learn from it by analyzing
previous civilization's tracks (data). Maybe, only then that so called Power can
keep the engines of this civilizations running longer and 'Buy Time' to build
static value patterns to replace the one that become obsolete.
There is a basic Geologic Principle which says:
"The past is the Key to the present"
It is a principle which could be applied to many situations, no just Geology
> [Dave]
> >>War is Dynamic Quality; make no mistake about it. Analogous with being naked
> >>and blind in a room full of hot stoves with someone shooting at you. Negative
> >>yes, but still very Dynamic. Direct experiences so powerful that survivors
> >>relive them the rest of their lives.
>
> (B)
> {(B) Critics of both ZZM and Lila, female's view and comments about Lila.}
> [Dave:
> >Critics of both ZZM and Lila have noted a similar disparity between the
> >philosophic "Chautauqua" and tales of the the physical journeys. So strong are
> >the negatives in Lila's tale that I have had female friends who refused to
> >continue past the first chapter. I believe Mary Witter indicated she had a
> >similar problem.
Carmen: Many Females walk around with a chip on their shoulders and refuse to
lookdeeper into moral issues. I must admit that I take that attitude most of the
time (my poor
husband could testify to that) but, Hey' "this female Carmen" is a product of
years of evolution
and I have to live with my faults as well as my virtues.
I speculate that Mr. Pirsig use Lila as a female character to illustrate a whole
philosophical system .
He could have used a Male, but provably felt that he had already been on the same
roads that Lila
had been on and maybe he used as a technique to avoid written an autobiography. As
a female I took a defensive attitude while reading Lila the first time, but it was
challenging and it kept me very much interested. For that and other reasons, I
could put that book down the first time I had my hands on it.
And yes, I felt that he treated Lila as an object, but that was only at the
beginning. At the end he made a choice to carry this character Lila under his
wings. What Mr. Pirsig might or might not realize is that, the attitude and
personality that Lila had, was not tied up to Gender. Men can be, and often are,
just as ruthless as women (in any situation).
> [Dave:
> >I propose, and believe that history supports, that in a majority of all
> >conflicts it is the rigidity, static, stuckedness of the combatants positions
> >that finally causes the dynamic resolution, war. If this is true and war
> >destroys this stuckness would not one, under MoQ, have to view it as
> >ultimately moral and good?
Carmen: Answer is never, what you wrote bellow is much better. Your key words
there are that 'Let's wish for a society who's philosophy is based on the "Moral
equivalent of War".
> [Dave:
> >Some wag said, " The cause of war is peace." Yet we keep vowing that we want
> >peace. Maybe we would be better to steal from Dewey, who stole from James, a
> >wish for a society who's philosophy is based on the "Moral equivalent of War."
> Hasta la vista amigos,
Carmen.
> MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org
MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org
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