Re: LS Souled out

From: rich pretti (richpretti@hotmail.com)
Date: Wed Jul 21 1999 - 23:39:38 BST


Diana,

Will you marry me?

>I'm not sure that the intellectual self is the same as what we
>generally think of as our essential Selves. I think I am more than my
>intellectual level. The word self isn't well defined as we've
>already noted, but I would have said our selves are also identified >with
>our awareness. Awareness is not just intellectual and so it >cannot be
>reduced to the intellectual level.

Exactly... I was a real entity before I had mastered any social or
intellectual patterns of qualitative action, let alone advanced biological
ones. I was a real entity (unitary system of matterenergy) which over time
was seen to develop a center by which to control action - a unique suite of
prefered value patterns. I was a real entity which was aware, and was
willing. Not intellectually aware, but - AWARE OF QUALITY - the only 'true'
awareness there is. I don't *intellectually* remember it, but my 'soul',
while still largely at the sole mercy of 'inorganic-self-patterns', (earth,
fire, air & water), responded to the Dynamic biological and then social and
eventually intellectual quality events around me and - evolved.

>The self colors the perception of the soul.

Woo-hoo! Yes. Yes. Yes. This is just the path I've been exploring... let's
see... I *like* to split the individual 'soul' into two components:

Will (desire) and Consciousness (awareness)

And the individual 'self', of course, is the four-leveled, ino/bio/soc/int
patterned structure we call a 'human being' (matter and mind) which is
Dynamically evolving through spacetime.

What makes the evolution of body and mind possible is:

First - Soul:
The One Dynamic Universal Soul (Quality) is differentiated into many
particular individual souls - 'jivas' (Hinduism). This is made possible when
the conscious desire of the universal soul to know itself becomes
'objectified' (static) in the form of individual units of matter/energy
(particles), which are AT THE SAME TIME waves of lila's harmonious dance
(dynamic). In this way the "kingdom of heaven", or "satori" becomes many
separate palaces, each manifested in what we understand to be the 'concrete'
universe - that is, the Differentiated aesthetic continuum. (Northrop)

Second - Self:
This differentiated aesthetic continuum we know as the entirety of the four
levels of value patterns. In it, we intellectually recognize distinctions
between separate entities. Thus, we get 'self' and 'other', which are of
identical substance, and operate by the same principles (awareness and
desire) but different forms.

The constitution of a universe, life, society or individual entity, each has
it's own central governing office. (i.e.-proton, dna, brain, parent,
governor, constitution, axiom/postulate) These structures, the parts of the
'self' and 'other', are the objectified desires, and therefore values, of
the 'soul'.

The self is the particular values which are *potentially* accessible to the
soul's awareness and eternal desire for betterness. My 'soul' cannot be
aware of, and cannot act upon, the internality of any 'self' but the one I
call 'rich'. I can break you bones with sticks and stones, I can even hurt
you with my tongue, but I can never scratch your soul.

Just what exactly was the factor of human existence which was felt by the
(strongest) of the camp-concentrated Jews as an intense desire to live, to
breath one more day, kiss one more lip, play one more game, do one more
geometry question...? All this desire, despite the awareness of the
absolutely dispicably sufferingly low quality of the immediately present and
indefinitely future patterns of sadistic value issuing forth from the deep
pits of Adolf's soul?

The absolute Quality of the 'soul' and the *potential* perfection of the
'self' and 'other' ('real' world) That is what. If the very simple and
necessarily primary functions of willing and 'knowing' (NOT logically, but
consciously) were not so damn wonderfully exhilaratingly beautiful, why do
we keep on truckin'? And why are these functions so great? Because that
tangible reality of which we are aware (apart from our self-awareness), and
which we are able to manipulate (and are manipulated by), has a really
cool...

            VUCKIN' FALUIBOWL DIHNAMIK CHWAHLITIE !

>When I see my soul on its own, without confusing it with my self I >see
>that it's not just my soul, it's everyone's soul.

And Atman is the same as Brahman in Advaita Vedanta. (not in most Hinduism)

>So I'm thinking we need to make a firm distinction between self and
>soul. The selves are all different, but there's only one soul - >better to
>call it satori to avoid confusion between Christian ideas >of one
>person/one soul.

>In the MOQ satori is dynamic experience while the self is the >pattern of
>inorganic, biological, social and intellectual values
>that combine to create the individual.

I should add, now, that this dynamic satori experience is the source of will
and all grades, shades, flavours and degrees of consciousness.
Right. Because originally, we decide wether we like things or not, and what
to do about them, 'before' the intellect examines the rationality of the
situation. Is this radical empiricism?

>The degree of satori that each self experiences depends on the level >of
>awareness of the self, some are more open to it than others, but >we're all
>capable of it because essentially that's what we all are.

You answer the my questions relating to Buddhism.

>It is a feature of the intellectual
>function that it interprets data in mechanical and rational >relationships.
>The stream of data that it provides is our mind or >our intellectual self.
>It's a very high level of awareness, but we >mustn't confuse it with
>reality. When the intellectual self dies, it >dies, but satori will still
>be here.

I think of the 'ego' as having two parts:

Social - emotional
Intellectual - rational

Social values are learned emotionally (mommy and daddy and friends)
Intellectual values are learned rationally (self and teacher)

No egg exists when throned.
The ego does not think independently of the French culture.
The ego is not 'other' than the body.
The ego is, frankly, constituted -at base- of matterenergyspacetime
The ego is not the 'subject', and the body the 'object',
rather,
The ego and the body (the 'self') are the 'objects' of the 'soul'
but,
The ego won't leggo of my eggo. (waffle, that is)
The eggs echo went thrown.
(into the waffle maker, that is)

>And the moral is: if you want to live forever don't be selfish be a
>soulfish.
>what Pirsig really meant by
> that haunting statement: "maybe mirrors are all you ever get"

Ah, what vain clowns are we?

The classicist neglects the aesthetic, blinded by theory.
The romantic neglects the theoretic, blinded by beauty.
The animal blinks.
The sage winks.

     and

The brujo smiles as we dig it.

Can I see straight?

Rich

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