Re: LS Re: SOM and the intellect

From: B. Skutvik (skutvik@online.no)
Date: Tue Sep 21 1999 - 18:13:20 BST


BO CONTINUES HIS END-OF-MONTH SWEEP AND TRIES TO COME
TO AN AGREEMENT WITH MAGNUS' POST OF 17 SEPTEMBER WHERE
HE WROTE:

> I'd like to add the following to Diana's map metaphor. If you think
> about actually *drawing* a physical map on paper, then there's no
> way you can include both the table and the map on the map. You could
> always take one step back and see that the map is a map of the table
> and the map.
 
> However, and this is what I think is the most powerful, (and
> sometimes too powerful), thing about the intellectual level: It's
> recursive. It enables us to include something in itself. I can
> think, but I can also think about what I just thought, and then
> think about that...
 
> That's a truly unique feature, you can't have a cup of coffee inside
> itself. You can't have any other type of pattern inside itself.

I hoped that your input was in support of my assertion that two
metaphysics can't coexist (the map metaphor) but I am not sure,
particularly when you refer to Q-intellect as thinking (about
thinking) I got the sinking feeling that it became "mind"
and that ideas, theories - including various metaphysics - slosh
around inside this MENTAL "cup". Something you afterwards
declare impossible, and I think you are right..

> But then again, it's sometimes too powerful. We sometimes get
> confused and we can intellectually create all kinds of strange
> contradictions using it.
> But the MoQ says that any such contradiction is only an intellectual
> construct, it does not correctly reflect the other patterns it
> supposedly tries to.
> For example, the SOM is such an intellectual construct. But since we
> can find contradictions in it, it does not correctly reflect the
> "reality" it tries to.
> My guess is that the Greeks were blinded by this powerful
> intellectual level and made a too static system in which there were
> no room for future changes. So when quantum mechanics turns up and
> blurs the, until then crystal clear, border between subjects and
> objects, it strikes the ostrich pose and pretends it rains.
> It would have been neat to see what the Greeks would have done if
> they'd known about quantum mechanics. It also makes me wonder if the
> sophists knew something about it - or something similar, or if they
> just thought SOM sounded boring.

To ask what the Greeks would have done if they'd known about quantum
mechanics....is like asking how much the Romans could have
expanded their empire had they had automobiles. Evolution HAVE to go
by steps.

> To close up, I wouldn't say that SOM *is* the intellectual level,
> but it sure is one of the first entities that really used it.

Perhaps I am picking nits, but I can't understand what "it" (in the
last line above) is beside its VALUE. What strange vessel is
Intellect that it can be used by SOM, perhaps eptied of it
and filled with other contents? No such capacity is connected with
the other static levels; they are their value. Q-biology "used" by
several competing biological patterns? (Life is life be it an amoeba
or a human being) It doesn't make Q-sense ..to me.

Bo

MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org



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