Rob, you wrote way back:
> Bo and All,
> I definitely agree with you when you say that we interpret MOQ
> in similar
> ways. I agree with you at heart about your SOM=Q-intellect level, it
> took me a while, but now I'm a believer.
Great, but does the following mean that you still have reservations
or is it "perfect tense"? :-)
> The one reason why I'm not
> too keen on going down that road though is the platypus phenomenon. By
> making it about the classification system instead of the world that
> it's classifying, we could be regressing.
> As an engineer, I'm a firm
> believer that the universe exists and we interpret it rather than vise
> versa. That being said, just as a mammal is warm blooded and doesn't
> lay eggs, SOM is the intellectual level of static quality. Which
> definitely implies that MOQ is the beginning of a fifth level of
> static quality, but we'll see about that. I contend that it has to
> take hold of society before it gets to that point.
Take hold of society? If you mean that Pirsig's ideas first must be
generally known I agree. Btw, I wish that Pirsig would have found
another name for the "static social level" because it so often
infringes upon the usual use of the "society" term.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In a message of 20th. Sep. you asked how the MD looked upon
the terrorist strikes, if they were Society vs Intellect. I surely see
that way, the reason that some see it as Biology vs Society is that
by reverting to the social level (emotions) any threat becomes
"biological". Vermin that must be annihilated.
The 24th you wrote:
> It seems that this attack is being used as an opportunity for
> social value
> patterns and those that represent those values: religions, the
> military, governments, the police to take back control from the
> intellectual patterns that rule our free world. I see this as a step
> backward,
Agree.You regard the social level in a correct MoQ light ... not as
our western culture which is intellect-influenced through and
through.
we have just come from an unprecedented period of peace
> within the intellectual world because those social patterns have been
> restrained. War is neither a conflict between biological or
> intellectual patterns. Sure their are manifestations within each, but
> the primary cause is the social patterns.
> The terrorist organization that did this, a social pattern,
> must be crushed
> indeed, but the best way of doing this is not the way we are taking to
> rid the world of this poisoned giant. We cannot become paranoid and
> forget MOQ altogether, our greatest weapon in this battle is the ideas
> that we can plant in the minds of the people within the social giant.
> The ideology of freedom to live a full life and enjoy it, the ideology
> of self fulfillment, the ideology of quality, the ideology of
> democracy, the belief that if there were true freedom, their lives
> would be better. The French revolution, The American revolution, the
> communist revolution in so many countries even, in a wave,
> intellectual patterns took over. The art of war says that a war can be
> won without a single battle. Like the Cold War, Democracy defeated
> Communism without a single direct conflict. The same can be done here.
Yes, this I believe too. The Intellectual level is the highest good and
will certainly prevail. The frustrating fact however is that these levels
only exist in the the MoQ, to what we moqists call Intellect (or
SOM you know) this conflict is "freedom versus tyranny". To what
we call Society (the terrorists) it is the Holy Islamic Order vs
Western Hedonism.
> This is a strong social pattern we are dealing with, it has the power
> to make people defy all biological instincts and kill themselves for
> it's cause. Only few social patterns have dominated biology to that
> point in all of history, the Victorians (and their sex), the Japanese
> Medieval society (and their seppuku),
Good examples - I would include the Japanese "Kamikaze" pilots
during the last phase of WW2.
The Chinese empire (and their
> foot binding). This only means that that they are at the point of
> emergence to the intellectual level. It's true that you cannot talk
> biological patterns to death, but you can talk social patterns to
> death, what do you think brought an end to the Victorian era? We must
> push the ideas of freedom of the press, freedom of speech, freedom of
> religion, women's liberation, etc. within the countries that breed
> this terrorism, and let the ideas themselves explode into fruition.
Right. I wonder if Islam will have a Renaissance of their own soon?
It's due as this religion is 700 years younger than Christianity, but
then Judaism is much older than both without reaching
Enlightenment.
> That is how we rid the world of terrorism, not by pounding them down.
> We are not dealing with biological patterns here, and dealing with
> them as such we will never be successful. When dealing with social
> patterns, we can destroy them from within. An intellectual pattern is
> an explosion of light that will destroy the social giant it manifests,
> it will point out the flaws in the logic, the reasons not to kill
> oneself for "the cause". When Nietzsche said "God is dead" he
> predicted the demise of the dominant social level, for when society
> doesn't have the mind of God any more than a single person does, the
> intellect rules all.
Nietzsche. I have long seen this thinker as some early Phaedrus
who went the same road, but did not return with a Quality
Metaphysics, a kind of "John the Baptist" in this regard. Thanks
Rob.
Bo
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