On 17 Feb 2002, at 1:49, SQUONKSTAIL@aol.com wrote:
> The great sadness in Pirsig's excellent work, is that the battle may
> be lost? When i say the battle may be lost, the battle may be the end
> of human evolution? You see, SOM is a pile of crap in my view, but it
> is a pile of crap from a human perspective; it may not be a pile of
> crap from an evolutionary perspective?
Hi Squonk.
This is a bit late, but hopefully not outdated (also thanks for the
admiration ref. hope I don't let you down) In the above you sound as
pessimist as Oswald Spengler in his "The Decline of the West"?
(Das Untergang des Abendlandes") Yes, SOM is a pile of crap
METAPHYSICALLY, but as a static level it's of great value and
under Quality's metaphysical umbrella it's tamed. If only you saw
this your "hatred" of it would subside ...it did for me.
> SOM has lead to the emergence of science and technology; in the last
> 400 years we have rushed headlong into, 'The unknown' under the
> guise of looking for the known! And the result may be the creation
> of our evolutionary replacements?
Exactly, and none in their right minds can contemplate forsaking it
> I do not wish to sound all Promethium here; the replacements will be
> the result of DQ doing its work. I do not like the idea of being,
> 'Replaced,' but then again, from my point of view i may not be
> supposed to like it!
Noble, but not necessary :-).
> The upshot of all this is that SOM is 5th level.
SOM the 5th level!? What is then the 4th? Except just calling it
"intellect" because that says less than nothing, and no-one has to
this day found its definition ...except you know who!!!.
> MOQ is not 5th level; MOQ underpins ALL levels
Agree ....I have nothing against calling it the backdrop of it all, only
THAT sounds like DQ. What transcends Intellect must be heading
in a 5th level direction.
> and will underpin 6th
> level also when it arrives; and in my humble opinion, 6th level will
> be Human/AI interface. If you do not like or wish for that to befall
> humanity then i am sorry to tell you, but there are many who just
> cannot wait, or so it would appear?
You know I don't consider these high-tech things to be candidates
for an out-of-intellect movement. Disembodied or interconnected
minds or supercomputation ..will remain mind/matterish till
kingdom comes .... but be my guest.
> Nope.
> I have the utmost respect for Bo's views.
> But Bo, i feel, is gallantly putting up the final fight; holding out
> against the disgusting overrun of SOM. For 75,000 years or so, human
> society existed and developed intellect. (4th level). There was no,
> or little need for recording this development, and so we have no
> trace of it today. The intellectual scope of our immediate ancestors
> was probably of a sophisticated level; more sophisticated than we
> would like to believe i feel sure: Rich, expressive, creative, and
> satisfying.
I feel DMB would ascribe the said 75000 years to the social level,
and so do I, to mix INTELLIGENCE with q-intellect is the great
pitfall.
> But SOM put an end to that. SOM announced to the world
> that humans where not the latest model in the showroom any
more?
Yes, that's SOM (or q-intellect in my book)
> When i look around my world and feel blinded by the penetrating
> image of SOM everywhere within my gaze, i feel like an animal caught
> in the headlights of a rampaging technological artefact. But the
> Buddha is just as at home in the circuits of a computer as it is at
> home in my view of quality. At the end of the day, the One pervades
> all, and the MOQ tells me i must forget myself and give in?
As said so did I before I met with Pirsig's ideas, the only difference
from your descripion is that I had not the slightest notion that my
tormentor was SOM, I thought it was REALITY ITSELF and once a
threat has been outlined - given a name - its power is gone, that
was my reaction.
> ZMM looked to integrate the split developing between intellect and
> art. Lila suggests more clearly where the split lies? I have an
> unnerving feeling the split is more an emergence of AI from the
> cocoon of human values? Let us not go gently...
AI! Let's retun to that!
Thanks.
Bo
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