Hey Dave,
> DMB
> I like the interactivity and evolutionary characteristics suggested by the
> economic analogy. They both seem like essential attributes of the
> intellectual level. But the oddness that Roger points out, to
"characterized
> the intellect in such 3rd level ways", is the main problem with the
> "marketplace" analogy. Its a third level creature trying to devour fourth
> level values.
RICK
I'll agree that taking the analogy too literally leads to some undesirable
results. But the crucial word is "analogy". By definition it means we are
describing something in terms of something else that it is not. Analogy is
an intellectual pattern via which we apply ideas we recognize to scales and
patterns we're unaccustomed to dealing with in an effort to increase our
understanding. The 'marketplace of ideas' is merely a mechanism that helps
us better understand how and why ideas evolve.
> DMB
> Hmmm. I think competiton is a feature of the lower levels, all the blue
> ribbons and tropheys, all the promotions and kudos are social level
values.
> That stuff is as old as civilization, or maybe even older.
RICK
Competition is a feature of any system that evolves. Every level competes
by a different set of rules... but every level competes.
DM
Intellectual level interactions operate with a whole different set of rules.
These rules are not at all concerned with which scientists will "win".
RICK
Right, but you should have said, "Intellectual level interactions [compete]
with a whole different set of rules. And as I reminded Rog in my most
recent post to him, on the intellectual level the competitors are not
'scientists', the intellectual competitors are ideas.
DMB
The rules are
> aimed at at different goals, at producing scientific truth, academic
> integrity, and adding to the sum of human understanding. Attaining any of
> these goals requires the kind of intellectual honesty that can put
> self-interest aside. Sure, there are ambitious scientists who covet the
> Noble Prize, but that's a corrupting impulse, and contradicts intellectual
> values.
RICK
It's important that you don't confuse the analogy of a 'marketplace of
ideas' with the notion of social incentives to scientists for innovation.
Remember, we're talking about competition between ideas, not competition
between idea-makers. The 'self-interest' of an idea is in getting accepted;
it's by competing with other ideas that the idea demonstrates its integrity
by showing how it is a 'truth' and how it adds to the sum of human
understanding.
DMB
So "competition" in the normal sense of the word is a form of
> interaction that doesn't suit the intellectual level very well.
RICK
No, "competition" in the SOCIAL sense of the word is a form of interaction
that doesn't suit the intellectual level.
thanks
rick
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