Hi Platt,
I was confusing "boiling down" as in {what I perceived as} reducing to what
you were doing is trying to summarize. I recognize the difference and I
realize that this was what you were doing.
----- Original Message -----
From: Platt Holden <pholden@sc.rr.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: MD Consciousness
> Hi Gary:
>
> > > I take it then that your answer to the question, "What's the mind in?"
> > > would be "In the human body." Is that correct? If so, the next
question
> > > naturally would be, "What's the body in?"
> >
> > Gary's answer: The body is not "in" anything, unless you want to
consider
> > the universe is a continuum of all prevasive matter & energy which is
> > configured in stable patterns of quality. Then I'ld say that the body
is
> > "in" that field of matter & energy, like all of existence.
>
> If all of existence is in a field of matter and energy, what's the field
in?
> Or to put it another way, how does space/time configure in your
> metaphysics?
GARY'S RESPONSE: The field of matter and energy is "in" nothing. It is a
manifestation of everything. First there is Quality, nondual and total.
Then out of Quality comes manifestation. Manifestation is in the form of
Quality organized into patterns of matter and energy. Space/time is the
coordinates humans use to find their way around Reality. Space is matter
and energy. Time is the flow of existence of matter and energy once it
became manifest from the Big Bang. Before manifestation, before the Big
Bang there was no time. [On the nature of space/time I could be wrong. I
did read Stephen Hawking's book "A Brief History of Time" but to say I read
it is not to say I retained and understood it all.]
>
> > I guess you could characterize my essay as "scientific materialism
> > with God accounting for the mysteries that science has failed to
> > explain...." But, that reduce my map into the lowest common
denominator.
> > Never felt that this was a very good idea. The point is not in what is
> > shared in common, but what is the differences! Reduction down gets you
> > into "scientific materialism" is a part of Western Cultural heritage and
my
> > map is a part of that heritage. Yes, but so what. Reducing down to
common
> > similarities takes away from the significance, the quality. Pirsig can
be
> > reduced down to a map discussing the mind-body problem. But this
distorts
> > the significance of Pirsig's work and hides the difference and the
newness
> > that Pirsig brings. Pirsig answered the mind-body problem by saying
that
> > it was a mistake to focus on that separation at the start of one's
> > metaphysical map making. Start with Quality and then work your way to
> > minds and bodies. My map is not merely "scientific materialism". It is,
> > using Pirsig, a whole new map. My map and Pirsig replaces "scientific
> > materialism". Generally in my experience boiling down anything results
in
> > very bland food. I tend not to cook that way.
>
> Sorry if I offended you. Since you "boiled down" the thoughts of Pirsig,
> Wilber, Harth, Lao Tsu, Koestler and others in your essay, I thought it
> would be OK to do the same regarding your thoughts. What I tried to
> do was summarize your major point or points. The following from your
> essay seemed to do the job very well:
>
> "The universe is made up of energy and matter and that is all, nothing
> else but this. What makes for the rich diversity of existence is
structure.
> . . . I believe that Quality is the Internal aspect and cause of the
diverse
> configuration of structure Externally and Internally of all energy and
> matter in the Universe on all levels. I believe that mind and spirit are
the
> internal experience and the internal attributes of the external
> arrangements of energy and matter."
>
> Can I assume this is a correct "boiled down" version of your main
> thesis? If so, would you be willing to discuss this version further?
>
> Platt
Gary's response: Yes, I do like that "boiled down" statement, that summary
of my thesis.
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