Roger and Platt:
Platt asked:
I wonder if David and other socialists on this site will be good enough
tell us what part or parts of the Communist Manifesto they oppose.
DMB says:
No. Sorry. I just can't be that good. Its too boring. I haven't read the
Communist Manifesto in twenty years and I'll be perfectly happy if I never
read it again. I'm not here to defend that antiquated tract and I'm NOT a
Marxists. I'm not here to defend the murderous, reactionary thugs who
incincerely claimed the name of socialism. The point is all about looking at
socialism as Pirsig defines it, as a "program for the intellectual control
of society". For the millionth time, its all about making a distinction
between 3rd and 4th level values.
Platt asked:
David, perhaps you'll explain the economic system you envision that
combines socialism but doesn't close the door on DQ. Is there a model
out there somewhere? Do you want the U.S. to become like Canada?
Economics is just one of the many important aspects. At the heart of thingss
its not about money so much as it is about evolution and the stages or
levels of moral development. Pirsig isn't the only one. I've found this same
idea in lots of places, including Wilber's work. This is just one of the
many areas where Pirsig and Wilber agree. Maybe it'll help to read the same
idea in different terms. I found the following at
http://www.worldofkenwilber.com under the "Integral Politics" link. This was
written by Frank Visser, a Dutch man who's written a book about Ken Wilber.
"To this familiar division of Left and Right, Wilber adds the idea of
DEVELOPMENT. (Visser's emphasis) The Conservative Republicans represent his
mythic-membership stage of human development, in which one's relationship to
common religious values is central. The liberal Democrats represent a higher
stage of development: the rational-egoic stage, which stresses independent
thinking and freedom (and, unfortunately, also materialism)...."
"The ideal combination of left Wing and Right Wing element would include
both the centrality of spiritual values (no longer constrained by mythical
religion, but inspired by mystical spirituality) and the acknowledgement of
the process of human development. It can be characterized as a mystical
humanism, a mystical marxism or a liberal mysticism."
This is what I'm getting at. This mystical liberalism or mystical marxism is
just another to describe an intellectual level political ideology that that
opens the door to DQ.
See? No, I suppose you don't see. Trying to get this point across has the
source of a great deal of frustration for months, yet I feel compelled to
keep trying. The odds are long. One can only hope.
In any case, thanks for your time.
DMB
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