Hi George,
Two things. One, If your interested, Arthur Koestler in his book "The Ghost
In The Machine" deals with many things, one of which is a investigation of
Evolution. When Koestler invented the concept of the Holon, he did so to
resolve many 'seeming' problems that existed in the theory of Evolution. If
your interested get a hold of the book. Koestler is a wonderful writer and
thinker. To be introduced to the concept of the Holon is worth the price of
admission! It matters not whether it changes your opinion on Evolution &
the need for Creationism as the way to resolve how life got here. If your
interested on discussing Evolution & its problems, I am no expert and I
would mainly be referencing Koestler, I could try.
Your other remark, piqued my interest: "Wherein does the Quality exist in
Christianity?" Now, I am again not the most qualified to tackle this one
either, I am Jewish, I come by Christianity through the books I have read,
and class work at the Univ. of Washington in getting my BA in Religious
Studies. Actually this response could also be read as an answer to a
question unasked: "Wherein does Quality exist in Judaism?" So, with all of
these caveats , onward!
Actually, this response will also touch upon the lack of Creation Science
movement in Judaism and a discussion of Quality in Christianity. I would
believe Quality in Christianity would derive from 2 sources. One is out of
the Trinity. The second is out of a fuller understanding of how to
understand the Bible.
Taking number 2 first, In Judaism there is inherent in the approaching the
Holy Text that the Torah that we have is not the True Torah. The True Torah
is a Divine Text which our Torah is only the representation of on the Human
plane of existence. Within this Human realm the Torah is actual two. A
written and an Oral. To understand the Written words in the Torah you have
to consider the Oral Torah. "Oral Torah" being the writings of the Rabbis,
which were obviously Divinely inspired. to take the Written text without
considering the Oral, is folly. The Oral Torah has 4 layers. [This concept
in the form I am about to present was derived around 1290's in Spain. ] A
way to recall the layers is the acronym PaDReS. The Hebrew word for
'Orchard' i.e. 'The Garden of Eden'. P=Peshat Hebrew for Simple or Plain ,
D=Derash Hebrew for To Draw out, R=Remetz for allusion, S=Sod Hebrew for
Seed. Thus you get 1. the starting is Peshat the literalistic understanding
of the text. 2. The Drawn out understanding of Rabbinic interpretation by
analogy & analysis, 3. The text is metaphoric or allegorical and thus you
need to interpret the symbols & metaphors. 4. The mystical, hidden meaning,
the 'kernel' of truth.
This four fold understanding of the nature of reading the text, explains
why in general there is no 'Creation Science' movement in Orthodox Judaism.
Orthodox Judaism says that the Torah is acknowledged as being in part
literally true: meaning that the act of creation took place 5600+ years ago
and that this creation unfolding in the sequence as account for in Genesis.
But, that this is only the Peshat reading. The theory of Evolution could be
'merely' taken as one of the other required 3 ways of reading the text.
Hence no conflict and no need to fixate solely on 'simplistic' [Peshatistic]
literalism.
Now, as for Quality. Quality could be taken as referring to the true Sod
level understanding of God. According to the mystics God in the Torah is
the Peshat level. The true nature of God is beyond human comprehension and
is referred to by the term 'Ayn Sof'. Which literally means No Thing. Thus
it is the undefined term for that which created all of existence and without
which there would be no existence. This should sound familiar. The Mystic
Rabbis have just given a definition of God which is almost the equivalent of
Pirsig's Quality. And therein in lies the match between the two.
How do we get from here to Christianity? Christianity has a similar four
fold understanding the Bible. In 8th century Bede [aka 'Venerable Bede',
'Historian & Doctor of the Church'] had derived such a system. The system's
influence grew and it is speculated that the Rabbi's borrowed and reframed
this system into the PaDReS system. The four fold system is History,
Allegory, Moral homilies, and Analogy [generally meaning the mystical
insights.] I am not knowledgeable of this Christian version of 4 aspects to
the text. I am getting this information from Gershom Scholem's book "On the
Kabbalah and Its Symbolism". Bede's system & thus the Christian system may
not have the same result as it does in the Jewish system. Stating the Bible
is History seems to fix the literalistic meaning more strongly than in the
Jewish system where no such equivalence is required. Thus, a Creation
Science is the route to matching Bible's Genesis and a selection of what is
acceptable from normative science.
My point was that perhaps in the idea of Analogy, therein lies the notion
that the Biblical God is not the True nature of God, that there is a Mystic
nature which perhaps is similar to the undefined notion of Ayn Sof of
Judaism and hence a way to equate God Mystically with Quality.
My 2nd approach to finding Quality in Christianity would be in the Trinity.
Either God as Father or God as Holy Ghost , could be the path to that
undefined creative and ordering principle of the existence that is Quality.
I would be interested in reading those of you Christian Scholars who could
present all this to me. I am not an expert in Christian theology and thus
just respond with an explanation of Judaism and Quality and a theory of how
Christianity could have Quality.
Gary
--- Original Message -----
From: George M Jempty <jb4mt@sdf.lonestar.org>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 6:44 AM
Subject: RE: MD Creationism.
> > DMB says:
> > Creationism is for ignorant hicks, not mystics or
> > philosophers.
>
> Is that so? I'm a Seventh-day Adventist, and not "by birth" either.
> Rather I had what seemed to me a "mystical" experience (see William James'
> "Varieties of Religious Experience") that confirmed for me that I should
> observe the Old Testament Sabbath, which in turn is considered a memorial
> to the week of Creation.
> Two things I'd like to ask this group, the first hypothetical: Have you
> pondered the "Quality", or lack thereof, of a lot of the arguments upon
> which the Theory of evolution is based, or do you just "faithfully" accept
> them?
> And my second question to which I am looking forward to answers from hicks
> and non-hick's alike: Wherein does the Quality exist in Christianity?
> Happy Sabbath!
>
> George "Ignoramus" Jempty
>
> PS....before you go judging me as a hypocrite because of my sarcasm, you
> might consider the many writings of the Apostle Paul ;)
>
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