Rog, Horse, Gav, Squonk, Andre and Platt
From: elliot
To the contributers to this thread, especially the anti-capitalist ones, i
say this: Capitalism is more dynamic and better for individuals than
previous systems. in the category of previous systems i include "socialism"
in this sense, "Socialsm" as an "intellectually run social order". I
suspect the author of such a quote expects an intellectually run social
system to be some sort of philosopher king society, where good old
intellectual values are supported (and imposed) by a ruler or ruling class
(wether political, economic or just repected celebrities). This definition
of intellect entails that intellect is found in college professors and
possible philosopher kings, less in middle class suburbanites and not at all
in getto children and heroine junkies.
I agree that socialism, no not socialism but whatever is next for humanity
(not de-evoloving towards failed static social organizations but onwards to
something new which incorporates the finer points of a market and drops the
insanities), is an "intellectually guided social order" but not in a top
down sort of way, but in a bottom up way. What we require is not smarter or
more compassionate leaders, but a change in the ENTIRE intellectual level
which includes getto children and heroine junkies.
Do junkies not wake up in the middle of the night from dreams in a sweat and
wonder what the hell their doing with their lives? wondering whats missing
and what the future may hold (wilber's intellect, or reason, being able to
muse about the possibilities of the future)? We cannot impose compassion on
these people from a philosopher king, but they must learn the value of it
for themselves. what both the market and "socialism" need are CITIZENS who
value intellect and compassion, where not dollars but Quality guide
transactions. A philosopher king is useless if buisnesses still want to
screw people, and laws which restrict the screwing of people do not teach
the reasons (values) for not screwing people but prevent it out of fear of
punishment. the more complex the laws, the more complex the book keeping to
try to "get around the laws".
This is why i dissagree with the market, which sets up a profit motive for
screwing people, and why i dissagree with socialism which punishes the
screwing of people. neither of these seem to breed compassion and
understanding (wider or higher quality intellect). but aspects of both
could easily be included in whatever system comes next (which would
transcend and include both socialism and capitalism).
Captialism is brutal true, but i sure as hell dont want any benevolent
socialist leader deciding for me how I should be compassionate. And
capitalism is dynamic, but its nessicary counterparts, beauracracy and
advertisement stagnate society, therte are other more dynamic, less brutal
options if we seek in the right manner.
Elliot
P.S. in the list of capitalisms insanitites which i sent earlier i neglected
this: the mythos of socity are composed and distributed as products by
advertisers and profiteers for the purpose of accumulating money. And these
mythos are beamed directly to children without being filtered through
anysort of family (the basis of human social organization). If this is what
capitalism does, how it nessicarily spreads mythos, then i cannot accept
that,
PPS Perhaps you get the idea that i think money causes greed. no, money
actually sets up a system which restrains greed. How much greater the
exploitations of men would be if we didnt have a system of reciprical (and
often consensual) trade in place. but if the root of exploitation were
transcended then a capitalist system would no longer need to exsist, as
money's role in balancing greed and fairness would have ceased. Sociaety
would "evolve" into something much more dynamic which is neiter capitalist
nor socialist, neiter brutal nor restricitve, where human beings are truly
free to pursure personal projects (not that they would get payed for it, but
others would benefit from their good works, and they inturn would benifit
from the good works of others). thats my utopia atleast.
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