DMB:
Jeeze...
>DMB says:
>This automatic assumption that intellectually controlled societies are
>repressive and authoritarian flies in the face of the other things Pirsig
>says about intellectual values. Namely, that they begin with and are
>protected by freedoms, rights, and democracy. He says quite explicitly that
>war, exploitation and genocide are the antics of the social level giants.
>I've tried to dispell this authoritarian misconception in at least two
>major
>ways: the politcal ideology test that puts the libertarian/authoritarian
>spectrum on a seperate axis. There its easy to see that, at the very least,
>socialism isn't necessarily authoritarian, even if it can be so. The other
>is to point out that what often actually happens is that revolutions fail
>and the culture reverts back to the social level and so it remains an
>intellectually guided society only nominally, which is to say, not at all.
>But all of this is apparently invisible to you. This is understandable from
>those who get their political views from TV, talk radio and other low-grade
>fountains of propaganda, but we're doing metaphysics here. I don't really
>see that in your posts.
>
>Maybe I expect too much. I don't know. But it seems that too many posts on
>this topic are far more defensive than they are responsive. I picture you
>with a finger in each ear while you sing "la la la" at the top your lungs
>out of fear that some idea might actully get through.
Elliot:
Well, in these short little posts disconnected over a long distance i cant
really be sure what someone means by a specific line, interpretation has to
go into it. So, when a sentance or phrase has multiple possibile meanings,
i address those possible meanings. If you even read the post, the rest of
it was about another possible "intellectually run society", one which is
libertarian and NOT athoritarian.
why do you automatically associate war, genocide and exploitation with
authoritarian and (i assume) peace, love and compassion with libertarian.
why could not a bodhivista be an authoritarian leader who emphasises
individual freedoms and compassionate co-operation, and why cant libertarian
masses commit genocide? Im talking about where the center of leadership is,
not what sort of choices that leadership would make.
I dont understand what your saying at all here. I explore possible ideas
and then you read half the post and decide im blindly backing these one of
these ideas, Like im supporting violent revolution, like im supporting
authoritarianism or something. Read the whole post next time, we're pretty
much saying the same thing.
"This automatic assumption that intellectually controlled societies are
repressive and authoritarian flies in the face of the other things Pirsig
says about intellectual values"
Well, i dont think intellectually controlled societies are nessicarily
authoritarian at all. I never said i thought so either, i said they could
be and then went on to discuss the ALTERNATIVE, just to clear up that no one
seriously could be supporting such a philosopher king socialst order, that
no one here is talking about reviving the vanguard party when we discuss
socialism. So again DMB, jeeze, whose the one thats beeing defensive and
not reading posts all the way through?
And are you accusing me of getting my political views from TV? I dont even
watch TV. And i try to suggest some people on this thread read some
habermas and some marcuse, some serious social critique (of both capitalism
and past socialism), no one does of course. If you assume me to be closed
minded and ignorant, than thats exactly who you'll be arguing against.
believing is seeing.
jeeze,
Elliot
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