Rog,
> SCOTT previous:
> I disagree on including "intellectual" on your list. True, you qualified
> it with "almost", but I think there is a glaring exception. One should
> distinguish between intellectual activity that serves the Giant, where
> the US does excel, and intellectual activity that serves the intellect,
> ie, philosophy. In that, I think the US has always been behind Europe,
> and in a different way, behind the Far East (I'm thinking of the Kyoto
> School). It had a chance to achieve parity with the early pragmatism,
> but lost it when it got sidetracked by analytic philosophy. (Pirsig
> being a rare exception).
>
> ROG:
> So the peers to the US aren't nations, they are all of the countries of
> Europe and the Far East? Seems a bit unfair, but OK.
[SCOTT:] Alright, substitute the Kyoto School of Japan for the Far East
(I don't know much else of what is going on there). Substitute France
and Germany (and throw in Denmark to collect Kierkegaard) for Europe.
True, two+ countries, but population-wise, comparable.
[ROG:] The US has one of
the strongest University systems of any continent. Most importantly, it
has an incredibly rich success record in science and mathematics. I
believe the US can hold its own with any nation in renowned scientific
discoveries, technological breakthroughs, medical advances, etc.
[SCOTT:]Correct. Serving the Giant, sucking up to government and
business, and more and more so as time goes on. (Don't actually know if
it is any different elsewhere.)
[ROG] As for
philosophology, which I view as lower grade intellect,
I think that James, Dewey and Pirsig alone hold up well to most countries.
[SCOTT:] Didn't I make an exception of the pragmatists? And didn't James
and Dewey go way out of favor in the US after WWII? And isn't Pirsig
almost totally ignored in academia?
[ROG:] And there
is always Pirsig's favorite philosopher -- Abe Lincoln. [Personally, I
think French and German philosophers -- though plentiful -- have been
complete wackos. Have you ever seen the unsupported assumptions Kant,
Hegel, Nietzshe ,Schopenhauer and the French post moderns pull out of
their backsides? I read that stuff and laugh.]
[SCOTT:]And what were Americans doing while Kant and Hegel were active?
Can't think of anyone, unless you count the political guys (Madison et
al) and they were just putting flesh on prior work. As to your
criticism, isn't what Nietszche, Heidegger and the French postmodernists
are all about that of attacking "supported assumptions" to show their
emptiness? Or are you still working under the assumption that there are
some (non-mathematical) static patterns that are eternally true? (N.B.,
as I've said before, my admiration for this work is only partial, in
that they haven't made the mystical turn that Pirsig and the Kyoto
School do, which saves the day from nihilism).
[ROG:]The US also has a strong intellectual record in politics and economics.
The creation of the first modern version of Democracy was quite an
achievement, for example.
[SCOTT:]Yes, a social success, and that is vitally important. But more
important is intellectual/spiritual success. According to the MOQ, no?
[ROG:]Space exploration was another notable
intellectual success.
[SCOTT:]I prefer inner space exploration. Doesn't cost as much.
- Scott
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