Hi Andy,
I noticed repeated references to my name last week:
ANDY:
And as ROG points out, many of
America's critics are trading freely with us and covet our products and way
of life. However, there are no excuses for the insensitivities and contempt
that many Americans feel towards individuals, groups or nations who criticize
our way of life and attitude toward the rest of the world.
ROG:
I admit it is difficult to respond to some of the absurd comments directed
toward the US without becoming a caricature. Just to clarify though, I was
intentionally being antagonistic and "baiting" Squonk and John in response to
the silliness of their comments. In fact, I specifically admitted this in
one of the posts. It is hard to keep the dialogue as high as some might like
when I was responding to a charge that the US:
1) lacks intellectual values (per Hollywood), and
2) that it is the world's asshole.
Were my responses more "insensitive" and full of "contempt" than the initial
accusations? Why?
ANDY:
Despite CNN and the opinions of some of the participants to this
forum, many Americans are not caught up in the wave of patriotism that
is being shown to the rest of the world. We are not all as egotistical
and as arrogant as ROG. Although, most of us would prefer to ignore
this vocal wave of embarrassment, sadly as it does reflect on all of
us. But, what are we to do? It still is a free country and as much our
sentimentalities want to say, "Please, Dubya, ROG, Fox News --
don't say another word, we beg you" ...we have to put up with this
obnoxious vocal minority making an ass of all of us to the rest of the world.
ROG:
No, Squonk said we were the ass. I just pointed out that the allegation that
we lacked intellectual quality was unfounded and gave some (admittedly
arrogant) evidence to the contrary. Why does this make me the obnoxious,
insensitive, embarrassing and egotistical one? Your allegations seem a bit
lop-sided.
ANDY:
I think it is obvious that without this ugly period in American history, we
would never have been blessed with these
gifts of higher quality. This is the dynamic quality that describes
American culture that ROG and PLATT both wish to attribute solely to
"Free markets" and "Capitalism."
ROG:
You grossly misrepresent my position. Just this month I have written the
following:
"I am fine with you selectively adopting a limited set of socialist-based
sympathies and values and overlaying some of these over democracy and
capitalism. Certainly all successful and modern nations have done various
versions of this."
"Over time, we have learned that successful free
markets require certain underlying conditions and that they can only be
sustained with active governmental support., free markets are
notoriously ineffective at addressing many social needs. For example, they
are bad at managing the efficient use of common resources or at protecting
the environment."
"All modern states have various rules, regulations, safety
nets, programs etc to control and supplement free enterprise."
"Free markets are ECONOMIC systems. There had better be a whole lot
more to life than economics. Even within economic systems though, wealth is,
as you have pointed out, not the only criterion of success. The economic
system must link up with the political system, the education system, etc,
etc. Together they must result in a harmonious, sustainable-yet-adaptable,
and creative social pattern."
In addition, I wrote several posts on intellectual and educational quality.
In summary, I was only obnoxious and arrogant because I thought it was called
for (plus I like to have fun in this forum). I believe the exact opposite of
what you wrote about my views of free markets, and I am just as big of a fan
of jazz and blues as you and Squonk. I live in Chicago, which played a
major force in the creation of both, and I would love to meet either of you
here at the regular jazz and blues festivals held every summer. (for the best
blues though, I recommend Mississippi)
Oh yea....From this point on, you can officially feel free to address your
concerns DIRECTLY to me. (joke)
Patina Rog
PS -- Squonk, just let me know where your dynamic socialist model is
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