From: Horse (horse@darkstar.uk.net)
Date: Wed Oct 16 2002 - 01:58:29 BST
Hi there
Just a couple of points if I may:
On 15 Oct 2002 at 20:19, Steve Peterson wrote:
> Kevin:
>
> > Interesting topic. I think it might be important to differentiate the
> > message of Jesus from the movement that became Christianity. If you
> > stick to the ideas attributed to Jesus in the New Testament...
>
> Steve:
> Rather than to the Christian tradition which is by definition a social
> pattern... Let's do that. I'd also like us to keep in mind that the
> authentic teachings of Jesus are likely to be different than the ideas
> attributed to Jesus by the Christian establishment which include editing and
> misunderstanding.
How do we know what the _authentic_ teachings of Jesus really are. As far as I know he
wasn't too big on the writing stuff down side and (as with Socrates) what we know of him
and his teachings is entirely second-hand. Also...
The New Testament is a heavily edited account. Most of the writings were never made
public - some more appearing in the Apocrypha only recently(ish) paint a different story
of his life. I believe there is a lot more available in the Islamic texts as they considered
him to be some sort of mega-prophet. Anyone got any knowledge of this?
>
> I invited disagreement, but only because I felt obliged to. I am personally
> not so interested in looking at how Jesus supported the social order, but in
> what ways he represented an intellectual challenge to the social order
> (though I am sure that just a strong a case could be made for a Jesus that
> affirms the social moral order of his day.)
>
> Kevin:
> > OTOH, I'm reminded of the scene in Monty Python's LIFE OF BRIAN where
> > the members of the radical separatists from the Judean People's Front
> > are walking away after listening to the Sermon on the Mount and one
> > says, "Well, Jesus has just blessed everyone with a stake in preserving
> > the status quo."
>
> That's because they misheard him to say, "blessed are the cheese-makers." ;)
He's not the messiah - he's a very naughty boy!
> IMO the challenges are more likely to be authentic teachings, and
> interpreting passages as challenges to society is a more authentic reading
> than interpreting them as preserving the social order.
Still leaves the problem of what he said as opposed to what he's supposed to have said.
And even then there's still a lot of controversy about the actual translations of the
various recovered documents.
Assuming he existed at all that is! :^)
Horse
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