Thu, 17 Sep 1998 Horse (>/>>>) wrote to Magnus (>>)
[snip]..........
> > > I'm on dodgy ground here, but if SO thinking is Q-Intellect then how can
> > > Q-Intellect fail to be aware of itself and the lower levels. Perhaps Bo
> > > could help here.
> > I accept the SOTAQI idea so far as to acknowledge that SO thinking values
> > the same things as intellectual patterns. That doesn't mean that SO thinking
> > is aware of that fact, it thinks it is objective.
> Sorry. That still isn't very clear. Does this mean that Q-Intellect values
> objectivity?
Horse and Magnus (Jonathan) and MD.
I have monitored the 5th level thread, but been reluctant to (re)join
after it took such a computer-technical turn. I seem to alternate
between agreeing with Horse and Magnus, perhaps most often with the
latter because I basically disagree with the computer virus/internet
idea, but Magnus has - at times - a tendency to become more catholic
than the pope ...or its MOQ equivalent :-), something that results in
very cryptic statements; the last post was crammed with such, but I
will only comment the SOTAQI part.
Yesterday Horse (>>) and Magnus (>) wrote:
> > This is where the SOM platypus exists. SO thinking (SOTAQI)
> > excludes PoV's that are not within the four levels.
> Come on, SO thinking doesn't have a clue about the levels in the
> first place.
What Magnus possibly means is that Intellect in its old "mind" role
(when SOM ruled): ".. did not have a clue about the (Q-) levels".
That is correct enough, but SO-thinking as Q-intellect (SOTAQI)
does, but...Nota Bene!... it wont recognize any development above
itself. Such a recognition requires that Dynamic Quality has started
to free evolution from its newest static restraints. Hence my own 5th
level candidate!
>From here stems also my objections to Horse's virus idea: If we use
Intellect in the above sense a new 5th level has to oppose/control
Q-Intellect's values and in LILA they are listed as the individual's
(the subject's) freedom & rights contra Q-Society. This sound silly
if IntPoV is regarded as "thinking itself", but makes perfect sense
in the Q-Intellect (growing from Society) context.
Forgive me but I slash left and right to defend what to me is the
MOQ i.e: the removal of the subject-mind/object-matter division
as fundamental: INTELLECT IS NOT MIND in the - um - "thinking
itself" sense which I suspect Horse lapses back to in his computer
virus idea. But also Magnus "sins" when writing: ...
> Not quite, since the intellect which is prior to the levels is not a part of the
> level's universe.
This is SOM's MIND-intellect, thinking itself, which "contains it
all"; the idealist dead end that had Western philosophy stalled
for centuries until Pirsig came along (which Magnus and
Jonathan jammed themselves into a while ago). It takes some effort to
change one's view to Quality's, and I still think that my SOTAQI
is a SOM-MOQ "transformation". Seeing SO-thinking as the top
Q-level yet part of the bigger DQ reality solved it all ......for
me.
Jonathan!
You may have noticed that I constantly scapegoat
your "thinking itself" ;-) , I am working on a reply to your
request of old if I regard EVERY Intellectual value pattern as SO,
and the last one if I think there is such a thing as non-SO thinking.
Coming soon!
Bodvar
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