Horse and Diana:
Finally, someone willing to actually continue discussing this month’s topic!
I am saving all my monkey and coconut thoughts for November. :-)
Horse, thanks for the support. Your analysis was brilliant, and I now see
what you meant by dividing DQ, as well as why you divided it. I think?
However, if you don’t mind having some fun, I would like to compare both my
original post and your comments to see how closely they match with the
writings of the MOQ. Once we establish a foundation on what Pirsig says, we
can progress or digress from there. OK?
I (Roger) said:
> 1) Quality is an event or experience.
Horse said:
>>As I understand it Quality/Value is Reality. Quality is then sub-divided
into
>>Dynamic and Static Quality.
I agree. As Pirsig explains on p12 of SUBJECTS, OBJECTS, DATA AND VALUES,
quality is not a thing. It is an event. It involves relationships and the
point where subjects and objects meet. It is the cause of the subjects and
objects.
I guess my best summary is that ….The Quality Event creates reality.
I said:
> 2) Dynamic Quality is the conceptually unknown part of the quality event.
It
> is the cutting or front edge of experience. It is the source of all.
Horse responds:
>>Isn't it the case that DQ is ALSO events or experiences. This was one reason
>>why I suggested that DQ needs to be divided as per SQ.
I thought so at first too……mainly because Pirsig uses these terms a few times
himself.. Throughout Lila and SODV, Pirsig goes back and forth between two
types of definitions of the elusive DQ. One refers to the unknown part of
reality, and the other refers to experience as you suggest. Only by focusing
that quality is an event, am I able to synthesize these approaches. In SODV
Pirsig refers to DQ as the "Conceptual Unknown". In Lila , he refers to it as
"The source of all things." And that it "has to be continually rediscovered".
However, in other places he seems to simplify his terminology and, like you,
use DQ and experience somewhat interchangeably. For example, on p137 he calls
an infant's stimuli "DQ". As I see it, we either need to follow your approach
and agree that Pirsig defines two kinds of DQ, or find another way around the
dilemma. The "conceptually unknown" and "experience" seem to almost be
opposites in some ways.
On p12 of SODV Pirsig hints at the synthesis......"DQ is a stream of quality
events going on and on forever, always at the cutting edge of the present." To
continue the knife terminology, my best interpretation is that DQ is what is
always just ahead of the knife, unknown until it becomes sq. The quality
event is the whole process….creating reality.
My breakthrough was reading Ant’s Forum post, where he mentions the Buddhist
term that corresponds to DQ is "unconditioned reality". Their term
corresponding to static quality is "conditioned reality."
I wrote:
> 3) Static quality is the wake of this quality event or experience. It
includes
> subjects and objects (things), memories, maps of reality, customs, etc.
Horse adds:
>>In other words the 4 level latching mechanism which creates stability.
I agree.
Horse then writes:
>> Axiom - Quality is Reality
>>Quality is identical with Value
>>Quality = Value = Reality
>>Quality is divisible into two sub-components Dynamic Quality and Static
Quality
>>Proposal - Dynamic Quality and the process of change are coincident
>>Proposal - Dynamic Quality is recognition of a particular change event
>>Proposal - Static Quality is that which remains after change
I believe the MOQ is consistent with all the above except on the Second to
the last point where you say" DQ is RECOGNITION of a particular change event".
I think a recognition is conditioned reality…..it is sq.
Horse, before I go on, I would like to know your thoughts on my comments and
editorials. I realize that my thoughts have evolved from just a week or so
ago….due to Diana’s prodding….and I hope they evolve more with your insights.
Roger
P.S.Diana…..not too late to rejoin the discussion!
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