JONATHAN RESPECTFULLY REPLIES TO MAGNUS FOCUSING ON THE MAJOR POINTS OF
DISSENT
Hi Magnus and Lilacs,
I am going to keep this post short to focus on our most fundamental
disagreements.
MAGNUS:-
<<<<
Again, I think the source of our disagreement is that you don't
think anything actually happened before it is registered and
intellectualized.
Things happen anyway!
>>>>
I agree with Magnus that this is the root of our argument.
I disagree that "Things happen anyway".
If nothing registers, then reality is unchanged.
To put it more simply, nothing really happened.
Regarding my suggestion that thoughts about molecules, organisms and
society were InPoV, BioPoV and SocPoV respectively, Magnus replied:-
>No, they're IntPoVs.
A question to Magnus. Is there any type of thought that is not IntPoV?
If not, you might have an argument with Bodvar, who objects to regarding
IntPoV as "thought itself".
Magnus [re: election as example of IntPoV]
>I don't know if you just think I'm kidding or pulling your leg
>with these examples. You don't seem to take them seriously anyway.
>I'm not kidding! I'm dead serious.
Magnus, I take you perfectly seriously. I'm sorry if my lack of writing
skills mean that you fail to understand the logic of my objections
(which you frequently ignore).
>Jonathan, ...the model
>you have of intellect and the rest of the levels are simply not
>compatible with your moral codes. So, you let go of the equation
>reality=morality and puts human morality first.
>
I put human morality where it always was. MAN IS THE MEASURE.
That's the whole Quality idea. The "codes" are a product of morality,
not the other way round.
>I think this is what Pirsig means with "Rigel-morality". Rigel-
>moralists can preach about what is moral without facing the
>consequences in reality.
"Rigel morality" puts codes first. Rigel condemns Pirsig for violating a
code.
>Homo sapiens
>killed the other race because they could, and it was moral.
>It was moral because they could, and they could because it was
>moral. Morality = Reality. I doubt the same Rigel-moralist
>would claim this event to be moral....
By this logic, the Holocaust was moral! Sorry Magnus, I reject that
outright.
>But it goes deeper than that, it also means that every event
>in every level happens because it is moral. ...
That says that immorality is only about the things that never happen.
What a waste of time discussing morality then!
...
>If you respect us putting
>the morality=reality equation before anything else, I promise to
>respect you putting humanity on the front row.
>
Magnus, I never intended to scorn you and apologise for any offence I
may have caused.
My personal ethical standards agree with yours, that we should respect
each other.
With respect,
Jonathan
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