December, 1998 Program
Brains, minds and intellectual patterns……. How are these related to each
other and to society? What defines and distinguishes an intellectual
pattern and
gives it its lofty perch atop the static patterns of value?
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What is the difference between brain, mind, and intellect?
Bodvar says that mind is not equal to Q-intellect (the intellectual level),
and says this is what sets the MOQ apart from SOM; because MOQ rejects the
intellect-as-mind-as-consciousness-as-awareness notion. But Platt points
out that Pirsig seems to equate the two. Glove, however, equates mind with
awareness. Donny believes intellect and mind are different. Diana says
intellectualizing seems to be just one of the activities that "me" does
*within* the mind; thus saying intellect and mind are different. Magnus
explained that the brain is a social pattern supporting an intellectual
pattern. Keith sees mind as biological. Finally, Malbin states that the
mind is a sixth sensory awareness able to perceive mental "objects".
Perhaps we have more work to do in this area?
Resources:
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Bodvar 12/2/98:
>Conclusion: Neither mind nor matter can
>retain their old role in the quality context! If not this basic
>premise is heeded and we continue to speak about mind as if equal to
>Q-Intellect, everything is screwed up.
Platt 12/3/98:
>I think Pirsig
>considers mind to be the same as intellect, but uses the term intellect
>more often in order to make a clear distinction between the MoQ and
>SOM.
Donny 12/4/98:
>Not only does IntPoVs not = mind, but it does not =
>reason/logic either. It must include this social element in it.
Bodvar 12/4/98:
>Human beings conscious..????? What sets the MOQ apart from SOM is
>that it rejects the intellect-as-mind-as-consciousness-as-awareness
>notion. Humans able to foresee the future!? Well, a bear that builds
>a lard for the winter or birds that migrate in the fall do also
>foresee the future.
Glove 12/5/98:
>in my opinion, Mind is the same as awareness. Mind is not just thought
>patterns, but rather the Quality Event between our "self" and the
>environment around us.
>...
>Glove: this argument seems logical to me until you begin to examine just
>what logical consistency is. logical consistency is social level
agreements.
>logic arose with the ancient Greeks, along with the social level coming
into
>dominance. logic is not a search for truth but for way to agree on what
>reality is socially.
Bodvar 12/6/98
>"thinking" isn't a spiritual
>exercise taking place in a mind realm as different from the matter
>realm, but ONE STATIC LEVEL.
Diana 12/6/98:
>Is mind the same as intellect?
>Pirsig seems to say that but I, and I think others have a problem with
>it. Intellectualizing seems to be just one of the activities that "me"
>does *within* the mind.
Magnus 12/7/98:
>My point is that I see a human brain much like an anthill. It's
not populated by ants but neurons. It's much more complex and
different in many ways but it is nonetheless a social pattern
sustaining intellectual patterns.
Keith 12/8/98:
Both intellect and society (culture) emerge out of biological mind.
Bodvar 12/11/98:
>The static intellectual level (Q-Intellect) is NOT the intellect
of SOM. The former is subject-object logic while the latter is
"thinking itself" or "mind".
Malbin 12/18/98:
>The mind is a sixth sensory awareness. the
mind is that part of a being which is aware of
"metal objects" such as language, ideas and
concepts. The mind is not physical nor material in
that it can not be objectively measured or sensed
by the 5 sensory awarenesses. The mind therefore
can only be subjectively, or interiorly,
perceived.
The human mind is a specialized awareness that
is produced when the brain organ senses, or comes
in contact with, language. Analogous to visual
awareness, produced when the eye organ senses
light. Therefore it follows that if either
language or the brain is missing then mind
awareness does not arise. For example, humans
raised by wolfs don't develop linguistic thought.
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