ROGER WILL CONTINUE TO STRESS THAT DEFINING A LEVEL BY EXAMPLES OF INDEPENDENT
REALITIES OR "THINGS" IS DOOMED FOR FAILURE
Bo, Mary, David, Glove and Jonathan
Pirsig's "Forces of Value" are not some needless complication. They are the
best way to define and clarify the levels, especially complex, intertwined
levels such as intellect and society. Pirsig recognizes this and we need to as
well.
Minds, brains, men, democracy, marriage, school shootings, religion and
spiders on LSD each involve pattern combinations of various levels. Agreed?
So let us quit the confusion and stop using these as examples of a particular
level.
Below are "Roger's Reminders"
1) The four levels are sorted intellectual abstractions
2) Independent realities , or "things", can be defined as combinations of
static patterns
3) More complex independent realities or things are usually composed of
patterns from multiple levels
4) To clarify the higher levels, be very careful about refering to things
within that level, as you are almost certainly referring to a thing composed
of multiple levels
5) The purest way to define the levels is to follow Pirsig's lead and focus on
the forces of creation and destruction that emerge within each level
BO WRITES TO GLOVE:
<< But - again - it's your society notion that is askew.You must not look upon
the US, Israel or Norway as expressions of Social value, they are heavily
Intellectual-value transformed. Q-society is something very basic:
duty, honor, discipline, obedience . >>
YES!!!!!! These are examples of the forces that create and destroy and shape
patterns.
JB WRITES:
<<ALL patterns are collections of sub-patterns. We could call them data
sets. I would say that the "complete" picture of reality should include all
possible data from all possible viewpoints.An individual pattern is born (Q-
event) by SELECTION and REJECTION of data. It has to be - otherwise there'd be
no knowing anything from anything else. The pattern is a summary/abstract of
the complete
picture, a MAP to sort out the useful from the non-useful data>>>>>>
Well said!
DAVID:<<<<We are a symphony of patterns, created by the forces of value
(Quality) from
all levels of reality.>>>>>>>
Exactly!
Let us continue along this line now and not revert back to our old habits.....
(I am as guilty as anyone else.) Feedback?
ROGER PARKER
PS where did all the mystics go?
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