Dave Buchanan writes:
Glove, Roger and All:
Do you really think it's reasonable to ask me to read the posts from the
past? I don't. Digging through prior conversations smells like a big
gumption sucker. Sounds like drudgery and I'm not gonna do it.
Participating in the conversation is whole point of this forum isn't it?
Besides, posting an idea doesn't make it true. Although I'm finding lots
of polished MOQ stuff, like BODVAR's autobiographical essay.
Soon it will be a new year, a new month, a new topic and a new
conversation.
Glove:
i dont expect you to do anything really. i was just a little testy perhaps
with the general tone of that email of yours on 12/24/98. it seemed to
me like you were casting dispersion without really giving any of the ideas
the thought they deserve, and indeed demand, not only my ideas but others as
well. you didnt even take the time to see where the ideas originated. if you
did, you would see that it wasnt my snail at all, but Walters, that was
being discussed.
am i being judgemental here? probably. but look at it this way...if i didnt
care i wouldnt have even answered you. i would have just deleted your email
and blew you off. please do not look at anything i say as a scolding but
rather critical enhancement. i am too blunt at times, i know.
Dave:
I'll look forward to that instead of backtracking.
Glove and I probably do agree that the snail debate isn't really very
important, so I'll drop the subject, except to say that I believe the
snail has awareness akin to the pre-intellectual awareness. It senses
Quality at its own level, but doesn't form concepts or mental pictures
of that sensory data. But who knows?
Glove:
this seems to have been an ongoing debate for some time now, perhaps
suitable for a PROGRAM topic one of these months even.
Dave:
This will probably seem defensive, since I was recently scolded, but I'd
like to tell you about myself. Its Christmas, after all. Nothing too
personal, just the info that might help here at moq.org. Glove told me
to be more prepared next time. That's the story I'll tell, of my
preparedness.
Glove:
prepared-ness means many things to many people and i probably wrote in haste
what i wouldnt have if i had the patience of someone like Bodvar. :)
Dave: (from 12/24/98)
One more thought to tease - I think that subject object thinking
dominates Western civilization because of the forces of value, but its'
time is limited and its' task is almost complete. The intellectual level
may soon be radically transformed. There may even be a new level about
to emerge from the intellectual level. Anyone care to speculate?
Glove:
i thought the garden of eden analogy of your email was very
thought-provoking. i do not happen to agree that there is a new emergent
level appearing, as i see the Metaphysics of Quality as complete in itself.
there is no use waiting for anything or any one to save us...we must save
ourselves.
origins are very confusing to discuss. our written history is so short, and
becomes seemingly non-existent if we go back past 5000bc. pre-historic
ice-age cave
paintings have recently been compared to the drawings of autistic children.
our earliest myths have seemed to have indicated a lack of subject-object
awareness that we
take for granted today. thats why we find no writings, no artifacts of
higher civilizations...our ancestors were idiots, to be quite truthful. this
has never seemed like an acceptable premise to me.
why would it be that at the same time we are uncovering these 'clues' as to
the rudimentary nature of our distant ancestors, we are handed legends and
myths and even maps (see "Maps of the Ancient Sea-Kings" by Dr. Charles
Hapgood) of pre-historic civilizations like Atlantis and Mu that
rival our own for complexity and technical know-how? how can both notions be
true? arent we missing something of value if we consign our ice-age
ancestors to being mindless, autistic-like, near-animal-like cave dwellers?
i think so.
the garden of eden is a recurrent myth from cultures all over the world. its
been called "the golden age" which supposedly lasted for a very long time,
hundreds of thousands of years. the earth was a paradise. humans and animals
not only lived together in harmony, but communicated without speaking with
each other in a manner which is impossible today, and so we scoff at the
idea.
what could have caused all these changes to have taken place in such a short
time? and any way you look at things, clearly some massive changes have
taken place on earth within the last 10 or 15 thousand years, both
climate-wise and geology-wise. did these changes effect our "awareness" in
some fundamental fashion? we will probably never know exactly what happened
for sure.
still, since i choose to believe that the Metaphysics of Quality uncovers
underlying principles in the universe that are "eternal" in a sense we
cannot even comprehend of, then these principles would be in operation
"always".
best wishes to all
glove
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