Greetings,
MARY;
You will have noticed that Vitzthum concludes that, "the manifold phenomena of physical nature -
light, heat, flora, fauna, consciousness - are probably manifestations of a single, foundational,
material reality, perhaps ultimately describable in terms of some future science." I also suspect
that you will agree that simply saying that everything is material reduces to saying that everything
is everything, which says nothing, in the same way that saying everything is Quality says nothing in
itself. The corollary of this is that referring to the single foundational reality as Quality is no
different from referring to it as material - once again I hope that we can avoid getting caught up
in pointless linguistic debate. Contrary to your summation, Vitzthum here plainly states that
present (and possibly future) science is not up to defining what this foundational reality is and I
see no reason not to call it Quality if that is what we want to do.
Vitzthum also says that, "Human beings are moral to the core," but, as Keith Augustine points out in
footnote 14, has a hard time being persuasive about it. This is where the MoQ can shed light on
materialism. Instead of erecting imaginary oppositional boundaries the MoQ should endeavour to
demonstrate how ethics and materialism can be properly integrated together.
JONATHAN:
"The majority of us non-philosophy academics follow the SO approach without questioning its
metaphysical basis."
A very interesting way to put it. SO is an approach not a Metaphysics. I agree completely and once
more it is a pleasure to read.
A "correct materialism" may be irrelevant to many and I take your point. However, it is not
irrelevant to me and it is not irrelevant to the philosophical mainstream. Surely there is a place
within the MoQ for the popular view AND the serious philosophical view. I often have seen people on
this forum and elsewhere bemoaning the fact that Pirsig is written off by the establishment. This
will not change unless those who want it to change have a thorough understanding of the position of
that establishment in order that they may refute, affirm or modify it in a coherent way. There is
surely work to be done on both fronts and I prefer the high ground as I suspect you do yourself.
YOU WROTE
"More controversial is my next step - to say that this view of intellect means it is not necessarily
useful to regard it as a level. No-one "reintroduced" the mind-matter split. Pirsig tried to sweep
it under the carpet by mostly refusing to use the terminology, or only to use it in a particularly
limited and disparaging way."
This is exceptional and my only purpose in reproducing it here is to emphasise the point. It is also
entirely consistent with Bo's interpretation of intellect if only he would take off the Pirsigian
spectacles when he looks at it.
PLATT:
Yes I can find a materialist who claims that morality is central to the fundamental nature of the
world. You need look no further than the Vitzthum essay brought to our attention by Mary. I refer
you to the quote above and to its logical extension.
As Roger says:
"Intellect values truth, consistency, simplicity, practicality, predictive
ability, usefulness, objective reproducibility and freedom from social
values (I stole these from Jonathan's "Art of Science" page)
Society values status, morality, group acceptance, power, wealth, celebrity,
social pattern continuance, and freedom from biological forces
Biology values reproduction, life ( biological pattern continuance), and
the 'law of the jungle" (eat and don't be eaten)
Inorganic values matter , energy, time and space"
Most of this could have been written by a materialist. It is an excellent synopsis of how, "the
'moral codes' or 'forces of creation and destruction' at each level," act to further their own
ends. Survival of the fittest IS survival of the most moral!!! What the intellect VALUES is MORALLY
bound to prevail and the same goes for the rest of the continuum which our intellect describes as
levels. Scientists often don't say this explicitly and this is where the MoQ can contribute to the
materialist understanding of itself.
Struan
------------------------------------------
Struan Hellier
<mailto:struan@shellier.freeserve.co.uk>
"All our best activities involve desires which are disciplined and purified in the process."
(Iris Murdoch)
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