David:
> speaking of higher levels...i remember the discussion staring at one
> point a while ago, ad then being dropped (5th level....what's beyond
> the intellect, etc)....is not a mystical level an obvious next step?
Avid:
Always suspect the obvious....
Not in my eyes.
Now why? [the most important of analytical questions].
1. Because we have mystical as non approachable attitude throughout the
whole 4 layers. I can imagine biological possibilities as magic to inorganic
agents, social possibilities as magic to biological agents, cultural
possibilities as magic to social agents.
2. DQ is held [temporarily] in any level. The answer Pirsig suggests to an
old Zen question "DOES A DOG HAVE A BUDDHA QUALITY".
3. The layers are structured. How can mystical have a structure?
4. All layers are imposed on one another, so the Agent of the new structure
is of the old layer [parenting the layer is also mentioned]. How are
mystical experiences social dependant?
All these speak against mystical as the next layer. Still obvious?
David:
> the mystic attempts to transcend the levels of biology, society and
> the intellectual - moving beyond them - breaking free of them.
Avid:
This is true, but the mystic does not try to form another layer, he/she
simply tries to avoid layers all together [and fail to do so].
David:
> if freedom is the key to higher levels (the higher the level of
> freedom, the higher the level itself) wouldn't this place mysticism at
> a higher level than intellectual?
No. not necessarily. While the intellectual [cultural] sits on top of the
social, the mysticism, tries to break free from any given structure. If we
look at mysticism as a way of thought or as a way of rituals or believes,
they use social agents, then they are of the cultural [intellectual] level,
not above it.
David:
Shalom
Avid:
SHALOM SHALOM
and don't forget to be gentle
Avid
icq 6598359
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