JOHN:
So while most experience for most organisms includes positive or negative
value, and without this value nothing will be experienced, in human beings
with a capacity for language and logic there appear to be words and ideas
which are experiencable but function to facilitate other processes and are
themselves value free.
Avid:
No such thing as value free process. Can you think of one?
Anything I can do, I can do better [value].
In MoQ the value is not a property of the subject [as in SOM], it is a
property of the whole situation. And if we face a cultural level activity
[as in writing this e letter], so it is part of the value of the situation
I'm experiencing. This is a significant break from SOM.
What "other processes " do you have in mind [forgive me for the SOM
language]?
ROGER:
Huh? Their function shows their value. Pirsig never stated that only one
type of value pattern is real. They are all real.
Avid:
As for action, in the social and cultural layers, this is how we experience
the bi-directional interface between the agent and the experienced situation
[known as reality].
Like Darwin's "starting from the middle", I have no reason to think
otherwise of different layers [that there is an active agent that interacts
with reality. This is not a thing I know but a thing I prefer to assume [the
assumption of A DIFFERENT mechanism, will give me bigger problems, like the
justification of such a difference.
I was going to evolve this further in my model of a SPQ of circular logic,
but the yelping of the SOM watchdogs became unbearable, but in my experience
"the big loser" from the SOM> MoQ shift is not so much the Object, as the
crumbling of the Subject to multiple exit points. It is true that RMP never
stated this, but in order to test a quality of an SPQ an active agent is
needed, and action is part of any SPQ pattern [thinking is action too].
On the other hand all RMP examples of SPQ where action oriented. Am I wrong?
and don't forget to be gentle
Avid
icq 6598359
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