From: Elizaphanian (Elizaphanian@members.v21.co.uk)
Date: Sat Nov 23 2002 - 18:40:30 GMT
Hi David,
You haven't understood my point on this one.
> DMB says:
> Murdering a human being is wrong on many levels and certainly not JUST
> because intellectual values are destroyed. You seem to construe the MOQ to
> say that the loss of intellectual values is the only thing that matters to
> Pirsig, as if its no problem to destroy biological and social patterns.
> Putting intellect at the top and insisting that its the most valuable
thing
> is not the same as saying everything else is worthless. So I think its not
> accurate to depict this "logical implication" as barbaric.
Whereas what I said (from your quotation of my words, no less!) was:
> The 9/11 example is just particularly graphic and (on one level!) very
easy
> to understand what happened. But in fact any disaster could qualify. My
> point is that Pirsig gives a scale of values, that 'intellectual' values
are
> the top of the heap, and therefore the 'worst' thing about any disaster
(ie
> worst that we can talk about, so not including unquantifiable DQ) is the
> loss of intellectual goods. Which I think is barbaric.
So, I *don't* claim that 'the loss of intellectual values is the only thing
that matters' - I precisely claim that "the 'worst' thing about any
disaster... is the loss of intellectual goods". I think there is a
difference between saying something is the 'worst' and saying that something
is the 'only' loss. So I shall repeat my question: "Are you saying that it
isn't a logical implication of the MoQ, or that it isn't barbaric?"
[The other points in the post can be best pursued in the 'Sophocles' bit, as
they centre on truth, where I've just sent another post. I am *definitely*
claiming that reason is incapable of choice, and that therefore reason
(understood narrowly, not broadly) cannot distinguish a bad idea from a good
one, cannot create a hypothesis and provides no motive for the search for
truth and meaning. That draws the dividing line pretty clearly, doesn't
it!!! :-) ]
Cheers!
Sam
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