RE: MD Can Only Humans Respond to DQ?

From: Patrick van den Berg (cirandar@yahoo.com)
Date: Mon Dec 02 2002 - 09:25:17 GMT

  • Next message: Monkeys' tail or: "RE: MD 10 statements: (for Wim on the degeneracy issue)"

    Hi Erin,

    > >The difference between 'detecting' fingerprints or whole presidents
    > is a
    > >matter of (quantitative) complexity, not of principle. (What the
    > problem
    > >is? Er...)
    >
    >
    > Increasing complexity...like to a social level?
    > Isn't that what Pirsig is saying?
    >

    See Wim's post with a long passage on experiencing DQ in the insane and
    mystic people, Pirsig does more than just pointing out to complexity.
    Precisely the pure DQ experience (devoid of any pattern- and thus
    complexity? See below) is a (very) real thing in the MoQ.

    By the way, their could be a measure of the information-content in
    momentary awareness, awareness in the here and now. Think of the concept
    of 'short term memory': the number of 'items' one can hold on to in the
    mind simultaneously. Tononi and Edelman, as well as Aerts and Gabora in
    a different perspective, write about complexity measures of the mind.
    Think of the difference between the perception of a totally blue ball or
    a ball with mickey mouse, donald duck and pluto and all on them: the
    latter perception is more complex. But, I should add, the 'size' so to
    say, the largeness of short term memory could be the same. I mean, one
    can have a drug-experience which 'expands' consciousness, but the
    measure of complexity in this expanded state is something different and
    can vary from very simple (flat energy landscape) to very differentiated
    (spiky energy landscape).

    Okay, do you see the connection between Pirsig's DQ vs. the patterned
    reality of any person, insane or not, and religious sects, of any kind?

    Friendly greetings, Patrick.
      

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