From: Joseph Maurer (jhmau@sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon Aug 09 2004 - 19:49:42 BST
On 6 Aug 2004 2:21 PM Dan writes to Joe and everyone,
Dan:
Degenerate quality and Dynamic Quality can only be identified in retrospect.
Once you've put up boundaries on the mystical it's no longer mystical. I
think the MOQ would say there's just experience -- evolution, Dynamic
Quality, gravity, purpose, existence and unfinished sq/dq are all
intellectual patterns of value -- but experience is Dynamic in the sense
that we can never define all of reality. Experience might be called a
Dynamic process (freedom) of defining static patterns of value (order).
Hi Dan and all,
joe: Thanks for your response! When I studied scholastic thought the
question How do I know things? was answered "by abstraction". SOM a division
of intentional and real existence.
Now in the MOQ I ask How do I distinguish the moral levels? The suggestion
is "by experience"! I am not satisfied.
How do I distinguish the experience of the level, inorganic, from the level,
organic? By experience! Experience becomes a word of many levels! It is
like the word God! IMO 'experience' is dynamic only in the category-self
awareness (self-creation). Can things affect me which I am not aware of?
Yes. Is the effect the same as the things which affect me of which I am
aware? No! One is moral. The other occurs through the autonomy of the
moral levels.
I am and I have inorganic, organic, social, and intellectual experiences. It
would be a shame not to distinguish mystical from mechanical experience. IMO
only as an individual is my experience dynamic. Were Adam and Eve only
dynamic? Inter-subjective agreement is not a moral contradiction.
Joe Maurer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Glover" <daneglover@hotmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: MD DQ & emergence & consciouness
> Hello everyone
>
> >From: "Joseph Maurer" <jhmau@sbcglobal.net>
> >Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> >To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> >Subject: Re: MD DQ & emergence & consciouness
> >Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:34:39 -0700
> >
> >
> >joe: i am trying to put precise word boundaries on the mystical and
> >degenerate-mystical world of the MOQ. In the mystical world of MOQ I see
> >EVOLUTION, DYNAMIC QUALITY, GRAVITY, PURPOSE, EXISTENCE, and UNFINISHED
> >SQ/DQ. All else is SQ degenerate-mystical experience. Mystical is not
> >subjective nor objective. IMO DQ and EXISTENCE are mystical experiences.
> >They are brought together simultaneously in an evolved being of four
levels
> >in separate levels. A sentence that reads: "DQ brought the SQ pattern of
a
> >photon into existence.": translates into ? I see light. I cannot say that
> >DQ
> >exists nor how it exists, I can only experience it mystically.
>
> Hi Joe
>
> If you permit I'll try a small change to your last and note the effect on
> your first: I see light. I cannot say that light exists or how it exists,
I
> can only experience it.
>
> Not too long ago there was a furor over a researcher's claim that the
speed
> of gravity had been accurately measured for the first time. It was pointed
> out by a number of other researchers that the experiment was set up in
such
> a fashion that only the measuring instruments themselves pertained to the
> results. The only feature the experiment measured was the instrument's
> reaction, not a direct gravity wave as was first speculated.
>
> By analogy when we measure the speed of light we have no way of knowing
just
> what it is that we're measuring. I see light. But the light I see isn't
the
> light I see if you follow my meaning; it's an electro-biological reaction
in
> my brain that I see. That it seems is the speed of light.
>
> Degenerate quality and Dynamic Quality can only be identified in
retrospect.
> Once you've put up boundaries on the mystical it's no longer mystical. I
> think the MOQ would say there's just experience -- evolution, Dynamic
> Quality, gravity, purpose, existence and unfinished sq/dq are all
> intellectual patterns of value -- but experience is Dynamic in the sense
> that we can never define all of reality. Experience might be called a
> Dynamic process (freedom) of defining static patterns of value (order).
>
> >
> >
> >(talking to myself) All right, Wise guy, what is Time and Space? I need
> >help.(sigh)
>
> Well, first off I talk to myself quite a lot too and sometimes I even seem
> to sigh like that.(sigh) Secondly, I'm not a Wise guy, but from what I
> understand the MOQ says that time and space are some of the first concepts
> to arise. Since they're the first it's meaningless to ask arise from what
or
> where.
>
> Thank you for your comments,
>
> Dan
>
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