Re: MD No to absolutism

From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Sun Jan 12 2003 - 20:41:10 GMT

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    Dear Patrick,

    You asked 12 Jan 2003 07:49:45 -0800 (following Platt) for my opinion (as
    Dutchman) 'on Muslim groups and the whole of political matters in general
    currently at hand here in Holland'.

    I already gave that opinion 22 Sep 2002 23:38:33 +0200 in reply to Platt's
    comparable questions of 17/9 16:08 -0400:

    Platt wrote:
    'I've read about concerns among native Hollanders that the uncontrolled
    immigration of Muslims and their higher birth rates threaten to overrun the
    country with a Muslim majority in a generation or two. Is this true?
    Is this desirable from your viewpoint?'

    I replied:
    'You are mixing up things a bit I think:
    1) A majority of Dutch voters are concerned about the volume of immigration
    and have voted a new coalition government into power that is going to
    restrict immigration even further. Immigration is far from "uncontrolled".
    Reasons given are (hesitantly, because they long were perceived as
    politically incorrect) mainly related to security (among immigrants are more
    criminals) and economics (e.g. immigrants are profiting more from 'our'
    social security system than they contribute to our economy).
    2) Most Dutch know better than to associate negative effects of immigration
    exclusively or chiefly with the Islamic religion or culture. If the
    immigrants causing problems are distinguished by descent, those from the
    Caribbean (Netherlands Antilles) are heading the list even if those from
    Morocco (especially those born in the Netherlands ..., not the first
    generation immigrants) are a good second.
    3) The idea that the Netherlands could be 'overrun' by those of foreign
    descent because of higher birth rates figures only in drivel and in racist
    "literature". These do exist in the Netherlands of course, but aren't likely
    to influence the behavior of a lot of people.
    4) If I am well-informed, the birth rates (and other cultural
    characteristics) of those of foreign descent converge with those of "pure"
    Dutch descent within a few generations. The Netherlands has a long history
    of integration of immigrants, which is often recalled publicly, and a
    tradition of tolerance of cultural differences, which we are publicly proud
    of (even when we don't always stick to it). Integration of immigrants is
    never achieved without stresses of course and a higher volume of immigrants
    creates more stresses. In the present political climate the problems are
    voiced more than they were a few years ago. The voices expressing the
    desirable effects of being a multicultural society and its inevitability in
    the
    context of economical globalization are far from subdued however and I
    expect the political pendulum to swing back in due course.'

    Platt reformulated his question to me somewhat in his 9 Jan 2003
    11:13:07 -0500 e-mail:
    'Do you see the influx of Muslims in the Netherlands to be a growing threat
    to your society's values?'.

    I agree with the general drift of Gert-Jan's answer of 11 Jan 2003 13:44:11
    +0100 to this question.
    I see it as an opportunity rather than a threat and as a declining one
    (because of a more restrictive government policy, which I disagree with)
    rather than a growing one.
    Dutch values aren't worth supporting if they aren't stable and versatile
    enough to survive the very limited influx of immigrants (of which only a
    part are Muslim) compared to the immigration into (mostly poorer) countries
    near to conflict areas (like Pakistan and Iran) and compared to immigration
    into countries inviting immigration (like Canada),

    With friendly greetings,

    Wim

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