From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Fri Aug 27 2004 - 20:59:08 BST
Wim
I could imagine a society where we speng/use/give
our money/resurces much more wisely & even
pleasurably, but currently rather low quality behaviour
allows people to accumulate money, etc
DM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wim Nusselder" <wim.nusselder@antenna.nl>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 5:51 AM
Subject: Re: MD MOQ and The Moral Evolution of Society.
> Dear David M.,
>
> I wrote 25 Jun 2004 08:09:25 +0200:
> 'Moral principles and other justifications for behaviour are a whole
> different (4th level) chapter and -in my opinion- not the subject of this
> thread. Let me just say that progressive taxation is not perceived in the
> Netherlands (by the majority) as a way to equalize wealth, but as the
> fairest way of sharing the burden that we have taken upon us collectively:
> the strongest shoulders should carry the largest part.'
>
> You wrote 26 Jun 2004 13:47:09 +0100:
> 'I would like to see the case between equality and inequality argued from
> both point of view. I think both are inadequate ways of thinking.'
>
> 3rd level patterns of value are (for me) patterns of behaviour. Our
> descriptions of 3rd level patterns of value apply 4th level patterns of
> value (ways of thinking). In this thread my goal would be to understand
how
> 3rd level patterns of value maintain societies and how they evolve. Given
> the presumption of the MoQ that evolution (at least in the long run)
follows
> the 'right' (moral) direction, 'towards DQ', such a description tells us
how
> DQ operates at the 3rd level.
> An aspect of that description of how 3rd level patterns of value evolve
> would be a description of how 4th level patterns of value influence this
> evolution. In my opinion the MoQ assumptions about the relations between
> levels imply, that this 4th level influence on 3rd level evolution is
> marginal (it cannot speed up 3rd level evolution, which operates by
creation
> and copying of habitual behaviour), but essential (it 'embodies' for most
or
> all part how DQ operates at the 3rd level).
>
> 'Making a case for' equality or inequality is part of the (discussion)
> process that determines which 4rd level patterns of value are in the best
> position (being participated in by enough people) to influence 3rd level
> evolution. It is about 'what direction SHOULD 3rd level evolution take'
and
> 'what SHOULD we do to contribute'. As I said: in the Netherlands the
> 'strongest shoulders, heaviest burdens' idea is in the best position to
> influence 3rd level evolution. The first idea you argued for ('everyone to
> have basic provisions ... so that they can flourish and we can see what
> quality they have to find in themselves and perhaps also offer society')
is
> also generally accepted in the Netherlands (it justifies our social
security
> system, one of the burdens we have taken upon us collectively). The second
> idea you argued for ('we need to decide what we are going to do with the
> extra
> resources. At the moment we allow people to use them for all kinds of low
> and high quality activity. Surely we
> need to find a way of using our resources more for high tha[n for l]ow
> quality activity?') is not. It justifies communist, state-directed use of
> all resources, based on the assumption that all resources are collective
(in
> practice: state-)property. In the Netherlands all but a very small
minority
> assume resources to be individual property and the state to have only the
> right (given by voters) to set a few preconditions on their use.
>
> With friendly greetings,
>
> Wim
>
>
>
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