From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Mon Aug 30 2004 - 06:09:12 BST
Dear David B.,
You wrote 14 Aug 2004 15:29:16 -0600:
'I don't know what to do with this. You have no problem with Pirsig's
anti-theism, yet you find theistic conceptions of God a [sometimes] useful
metaphor. These two positions are contradictory. I also don't understand how
one can be agnostic and a Quaker at the same time. This is all far too
slippery for me to get a handle on what it is you're actually asserting or
denying.'
Compare it with Pirsig's attitude towards SOM: it's not his position, yet it
is for him a high quality intellectual pattern of value. I'm agnostic about
specific depictions of God. 'God' stays a high quality static latch (one of
the highest available) for the results of humanities stories about how to
strive beyond your self.
You continued:
'Mystic unity is less practical [than "that which connects everyone and
everything"]? How so? Isn't practicality a social level static value? How
does a person make the mystic unity "visible in the world"?'
Exactly. I feel called to change the world to the better and especially 3rd
level patterns of value. I try to contribute to migration of 3rd level
patterns of value in a direction where they are more harmonious with the
highest quality intellectual patterns of value, those that (imperfectly)
express mystic experience.
You finally wrote:
'I imagined that [Quakerism] is a theistic religion that requires faith. If
that is not true, please explain what it actually is and if it is true would
you now be willing to admit that the MOQ does NOT support your religious
views?'
No, Quakerism is not a theistic religion. It doesn't require faith in any
4th level pattern of value or observance of any 3rd level pattern of value
(like rituals). It only requires an attitude of seeking for that which is
beyond both theology and sacraments. We try to do without (a specific)
theology and (specific) sacraments, while being ecumenical in spirit, i.e.
recognizing the value of the theology and sacraments of other churches as
expressing their religious experience. The kind of faith we value, is the
faith/trust in divine guidance as shown in one's actions. Acitons speak
louder than words.
With friendly greetings,
Wim
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Mon Aug 30 2004 - 06:09:23 BST