Re: MD the quality of equality

From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Tue Sep 07 2004 - 06:10:41 BST

  • Next message: MarshaV: "Re: MD The self is all levels."

    Dear Platt,

    Thanks for your (6 Sep 2004 09:01:50 -0400) alternative answer to 'WHY it is
    well and good to champion some equality':
    because of the 4th level quality of 'the idea of freedom from a social
    hierarchy' alias 'this doctrine of social equality ... [which is] is not at
    all self-evident'.

    I agree partially:
    The 3rd level patterns of value that maintain groups (social patterns of
    value) imply hierarchy, as some behaviour better maintains the group than
    other behavioiur, so gives more status. For its existence a 4th level
    pattern of value (and thus evolution from the 3rd level upward) requires
    some freedom from fixed patterns of behaviour.
    I also disagree partially:
    The 4th level requires a well-functioning 3rd level to exist. Symbolic
    patterns of value need relatively stable groups to be copied and maintained.
    Even the doctrine of social equality wouldn't exist any more if there hadn't
    been a community of believers with a hierarchy to maintain it.
    So, we need a balance: some equality is needed, but not too much, as it
    would erode ouir 3rd level foundations.

    You suggest:
    1) 'social equality is a value judgment and ... value judgments ... will
    vary dramatically from individual to individual depending on life
    experiences'
    2) 'those in authority would do well to treat their subjects equally else
    resentment of those who perceive themselves treated unfairly boils over into
    revolution. But, it seems that such resentment must be learned because so
    many people are perfectly willing to accept their lot in life.'
    3) 'perhaps we can agree that in the Western World the notion of social
    equality is widespread due to Christian doctrine which preaches that we're
    all God's children and therefor equal in His eyes.'

    ad 1) Support for the idea that social equality is valuable varies between
    individuals (and groups of individuals) as participation in 4th level
    patterns of value requires a degree of choice. You have to 'learn' how to
    use specific symbols and patterns of symbols to participate in 4th level pat
    terns of value. (After having learned them, you don't need to be constantly
    aware of them. You only have to use them sometimes in order not to forget
    them.) Those choices (not necessarily very conscious choices) to participate
    in a specific 4th level pattern of value (e.g. this doctrine) is determined
    to some extent by individual and collective experience but is also to some
    extent a free choice (the space where DQ reigns).

    ad 2) Not only those in authority (2nd type leaders, those whose leadership
    is based on enforcement) do well to treat their followers to some extent
    equally (except that they have to make a difference between those supporting
    and those opposing their authority in order to stay in authority...).
    Leaders of all 4 types (see
    www.antenna.nl/wim.nusselder/schrijfsels/economics.htm chapter 4) have to
    champion some equality. E.g. a monopolistic producer of computer operation
    systems cannot afford to differentiate prices for the same product too much
    between customers with different purchasing power (the normal way of
    monopolists to maximize profit) or customers will start evading his
    monopoly.

    ad 3) This Christian doctrine may be a factor, but certainly not the only
    one. There are also Christian doctrines supporting social hierarchy... There
    must have been some 3rd level sq (some equality works to maintain groups)
    and DQ (selective use of Christian doctrines) involved too.

    With friendly greetings,

    Wim

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Tue Sep 07 2004 - 06:10:33 BST