Re: RE; MD the individual in the MOQ

From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Mon Sep 06 2004 - 21:02:00 BST

  • Next message: Platt Holden: "Re: MD the quality of equality"

    hard to join in without ears too!

    DM
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Arlo J. Bensinger" <ajb102@psu.edu>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 5:15 AM
    Subject: Re: RE; MD the individual in the MOQ

    > Platt,
    >
    > Humans are born into language. It's a given at the social level, like air
    > > at the biological level and atoms at the inorganic.
    >
    > And this language (social semiotic) shapes the selective decisions of the
    > "figure sorting sand into piles". I am not denying the activity of
    > "individuals", nor am I denying that individuals (and not societies)
    repsond to
    > DQ. What I do deny is that these "individuals" respond intellectually
    outside
    > (in any way) of their socio-cultural system.
    >
    > Indeed, if all it was "just" experiencing DQ, then, sure, rename the
    > intellectual the individual all you want. But it is not just
    "experiencing" DQ
    > that occurs at the intellectual level. It is experiencing followed by a
    > representation or orientation to selective aspects of that experience. And
    that
    > is filtered through the social semiotic.
    >
    > Thus, I repeat, the intellectual level emerges dialectically from
    individuals
    > and social semiosis. It is not a product of one or the other, but a
    product of
    > their relation.
    >
    >
    > > > If anything, perhaps the biological level should be renamed the
    > > > "individual" since it discusses biological entities responding to DQ
    > > > without a social semiotic, whether amoebas or individuals devoid of a
    > > > social semiotic. The result is the same, an endless stream of DQ and
    > > > nothing else.
    > >
    > > Since when does the biological level discuss anything? You can't be
    > > serious.
    >
    > What I meant, of course, was that the biological level "addresses"
    biological
    > entities responding to DQ without a social semiotic. Here, of course, I
    > mis-spoke, and should have said simply Quality, not DQ. As the amoeba
    responds
    > (in Pirsig's analogy) simply and directly to Quality.
    >
    > To restate this another way, individuals "experience" but only through
    social
    > semiosis can representation- and hence, the intellectual level- emerge.
    >
    > "Individuals" devoid of a social semiotic will not engage in the
    intellectual
    > level at all. Do you agree or disagree?
    >
    > Arlo
    >
    >
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