Re: MD On Faith - Improbability ?

From: David Morey (
Date: Tue Oct 19 2004 - 19:07:22 BST

  • Next message: Scott Roberts: "Re: MD On Faith"

    Hi Mark

    But that's exactly an example of something
    that appears to have been selected to survive
    in certain conditions and is wiped by a change
    in conditions, it is not a mutation that gets wiped
    is it. I know I am annoying it is deliberate but that's
    more evidence for my point not against it.
    Look, selection is highly plausible as a causal
    factor in evolution, crap forms get wipped, but that
    supposes the endless creation of new forms some
    of which are highly successful. This is very odd,
    even if you had a lot of monkeys and typewriters
    and could select all you like for the monkey that
    gets closest to typing Shakespeare you just are not
    going to get to Shakespeare. The cosmos is not that
    old. How we did get from monkeys to Shakespear
    is a hard one, evolution has surely happened, Darwinism
    does help explain it, but I for one of many, think we
    need other causal and perhaps agentive forces to make
    an explanation. Sheldrake has suggested one way,
    Lamarck another, we still await a breakthrough.
    It seems obvious to me that the past is present in a
    more direct way than via DNA. Perhaps quantum interconnectivity
    hints at something else. DNA learns only negative lessons, surely
    evolution requires something more positive. Prior to better
    evidence I doubt the causal adequacy & sufficiency of Darwinism.


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <>
    To: <>
    Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 12:34 AM
    Subject: Re: MD On Faith - Improbability ?

    > Hi David,
    > On 17 Oct 2004 at 14:36, David Morey wrote:
    >> msh says:
    >> But isn't the fossil record loaded with examples of biological false
    >> starts, goofy non-viable mutations, and dead ends? (I bet Jim can
    >> provide plenty of examples.
    > DM: As any scientist will tell you anything in the fossil record must
    > have been pretty successful at hanging around and breeding for quite
    > some time to fluke a turn up in the fossil record.
    > msh says:
    > I was thinking of certain species of foraminifera and diatoms which
    > pooped out very quickly (geologically speaking), due to an inability
    > to withstand even moderate variations in water temp and salinity:
    > definitely a sign of non-existent or bad planning. But this is from
    > memory of two Invertebrate Paleontology courses I took back in the
    > 70's, which is why I framed my point as a question. But I'm pretty
    > sure the guy who taught the course would qualify as a scientist.
    > david advises me:
    > get yourself up to date my friend and accept the limited status of
    > our current knowledge and don't just repeat neo-Darwin fantasy as
    > fact.
    > msh says:
    > Will do. Thanks for the advice.
    > Best,
    > Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
    > --
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