Re: MD On Faith

From: ml (
Date: Fri Oct 22 2004 - 18:11:12 BST

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    Hello Wim / Sam:

    Pardon my intrusion on this nexus
    of the Faith thread, but there seems
    to my understanding an empty space
    where the points of your discussion
    do not meet. (or I am deficient in my
    comprehension of your exchange...)

    Sam wrote:
    > 'I would like to push you on the nature of DQ,
    > ie whether something can be simultaneously
    > experienced as DQ by one person and SQ as
    > another.'


    Wim Wrote:
    > When something is understood as 'being',
    > it cannot be DQ, but only SQ. It is only 'changing'
    > that can be understood as DQ. (And not all
    > 'changing' is DQ. Some is degenerative.)
    > Change is always relative to (so dependent on)
    > what already 'is'. SQ is different for everyone,
    > but not so different that we cannot recognize
    > patterns.

    > The nature of DQ cannot be found by comparing
    > these patterns, however. A recognized change
    > (a 'direction' in that change) is always a new
    > pattern, new SQ. The change that is DQ eludes
    > such definition of its nature by being change
    > relative to what's unique in everyone's SQ.

    While on the one hand the infinite potential of
    manifesting non-being as it "spills" into being
    is DQ, as we experience or perceive it, hence,
    change; on the other, the perception or experience,
    the comprehension or synthesis, or the occasion
    of epiphany can be freighted with DQ.

    To expand in the later case, when insight into a
    state or relationship that is new to one individual,
     that is a DQ experience, regardless of whether to
    someone else that insight was known or discovered
    some time ago and so SQ to the senior experiencer.

    As change is relative, so is perception-experience.

    (to digress to the mystic-church chord)
    All perceiving beings in the unfolding of their experience
    will find quality at their own "pace." So to, to the limit of
    their capability, will institutions, organizations, schools,
    groups, religions and the people within find change
    unfold in their experience of quality accreting in being.

    Mother Theresa and the example of service has
    replaced the inquisition and the burning of heretics
    in the expression of Catholicism. Protestant-like
    chatter of engaged social church members has
    replaced the deep contemplative space of a more
    magnificent ritual-laden, priest driven church.

    Slow change is still change, but to the ability level
    of those with less flexibility, those invested in taking
    control of the rigid structures of static quality from
    the 'fear memory' of pain at the hands of others who
    had previously controled society -- Rome.

    There will always be an impatient lot who sees a
    bit more clearly and will lauch toward the DQ by what
    ever they should, but that is not for everyone.


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