Re: MD On Faith

From: Platt Holden (
Date: Tue Oct 26 2004 - 13:51:14 BST

  • Next message: Mark Steven Heyman: "Re: MD On Faith"

    > msh says:

    > Less poetically, it's empiricism because its underlying premise is
    > that all of realty derives from experience. It's rational because,
    > after the first assumption, the framework of the metaphysics is
    > erected in accordance with the laws of logic.

    Faith in the proposition that "all of reality derives from experience"
    begs the question, "Whose experience?" The disciples of Jesus experienced
    the miracle of his resurrection. For them, his rising from the dead was
    reality. By msh's own definition he cannot deny the resurrection didn't
    happen since it was "experienced.".

    > I have no doubt that some people find the MOQ to be irrational. I'd
    > be happy to listen to their arguments. That is, of course, if they
    > have actually read and understand the MOQ.

    Pirsig claims DQ "creates the world we live in." How does science go about
    falsifying that? It takes a leap of faith to believe that something that
    cannot be defined, like God or DQ, created heaven and earth.

    > Platt also asks MSH:
    > Can you also explain why you have faith in rational empiricism,
    > especially in light of Pirsig's claim that there are many truths?
    > msh says:
    > MUST we go through this again? Anyone really interested in my
    > explanation of the difference between accepting first principles on
    > faith versus utility need only review the archives.

    MSH's faith in "utility" shows he's pretty much stuck in the social level,
    as Pirsig explains:

    "But the Metaphysics of Quality states that practicality is a social
    pattern of good. It is immoral for truth to be subordinated to social
    values since that is a lower form of evolution devouring a higher one."
    (Lila, 29)

    No need to repeat what Pirsig said about the Nazis being able to justify
    their deeds on the basis of "utility."


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