From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Wed Oct 27 2004 - 14:31:38 BST
Hi Mark, Scott, All:
Mark (msh) wrote about Scott:
> > Here he casts his vote for consciousness as the
> > ultimate reality because in doing so the problem of consciousness
> > arising from matter, he believes, disappears.
Scott replied:
> That's not my only reason, nor my main one. My main one is that the
> existence of consciousness is impossible to reconcile with a belief that
> spacetime is a fundamental structure. For consciousness to be aware of
> spatiotemporal events, it must transcend their spatiotemporality. Only
> something outside of time could perceive motion.
Excellent point, one repeatedly made by Ken Wilber: "An eye cannot see
itself."
Mark continued:
> > On the other hand, I
> > choose to let the problem be a problem, for now, and go with the
> > rational empiricism of the MOQ, believing that a large amount of
> > empirical evidence suggests the possibility that consciousness may
> > very well be a manifestation of matter.
Scott replied:
> While I claim that all that we call "matter", at least insofar as it can
> be measured in spatiotemporal terms, is produced by consciousness, that the
> idea that it exists independently of consciousness *as* spatiotemporal
> matter does not stand up to inquiry. All that we perceive with our senses
> (color, shape, motion, sound, touch, etc.) does not exist except through
> the act of perceiving, so it is fallacious to use these products of
> perception (which we call the material world) to explain perception.
Correct. Materialists ought to ponder Scott's argument, perhaps praying
for enlightenment. :-)
Platt
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