From: Joseph Maurer (jhmau@sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu Nov 04 2004 - 18:25:14 GMT
On 01 November 2004 4:43 PM MSH writes to joe:
[joe] Again I seem to be hijacking a conversation and I am sorry! I do not
think that the existence of an 'endlessness' or an 'absolute' in
social 'order' in the Christian mystical tradition is an analogy.
msh says:
No need to apologize, Joe. I always enjoy your posts. Can you
elaborate, keeping in mind that you are talking to a mystical dimwit
(I mean me, not Sam).
Hi Mark and all,
Thank You! for letting me off the hook with kind words. IMO anything said
about mystical experience is dogma from trust/faith. 'Freedom for all', is a
dogma of mystical experience. 'All are created equal' is another dogma of
mystical experience. Quality! is another dogma of mystical experience.
Inorganic gravity, organic purpose, social existence, intellectual
unfinished s/o, evolution are mystical experiences.
SOM with its division of existence into objective existence and intentional
existence (subjective) created a platypus of existence with ability. I want
existence to describe order only. Mother, father, child as a social division
does not describe any of their abilities.
MOQ uses a DQ/SQ division which does not conflate existence and ability.
Dynamic and Static are only an order of existence. Because of SOM influence
I want to attribute a 'creation' ability to DQ and a pattern (reproducible)
ability to SQ. These abilities are considerations of awareness. In the
knowledge of order, since I have no mind, How do I know DQ/SQ? All knowledge
of order, the basis for morality, is mystical experience, a direct
connection from order to knowledge. This is the social level.
The DQ/SQ split is exciting! If you find something to say look further,
there will be something more. The Edge of Chaos, the Sweet spot, evolution,
the point where what is and does is revealed. Order and ability, level and
awareness coming together. Sq in relation to sq in a creative way, describes
a mystical experience.
How do I find what abilities I have? William Miller in his book Dorothy Day
a Biography uses a phrase he quotes from Dorothy: "now and then a vague
longing came to trouble her-she felt a restless need of someone who would
clutch at her and never let her go." Another phrase to describe her longing
would be a fire in her belly. I do not think mystical experience is tied to
reproduction, but there is some emptiness that it fills. Singing, painting,
writing, consulting, preaching, are all ways to discover abilities, to find
the fire. The point between what someone is and does is mystical experience
for everyone. Immorality is twisted awareness. Know thyself! Nudged by Peter
Maurin, working with the poor whom you always have with you was Dorothy's
solution.
Tell me what he/she has done and I'll tell you where he/she stands in the
social order is a false measure. I remember a saying: May the best person
win! 'Intersubjective agreement' is another dogma of mystical experience.
Mystic experience is individual and subjective. Subjective, not in the SOM
sense of a division between intentional, subjective, and real, objective,
existence, but in a personal sense how/what am I doing. The motives for my
actions come from mystical experience.
In the order of existence I find a hierarchy as described by Gurdjieff. The
moon, organic life on earth, the earth, the sun, the galaxy, the universe,
the absolute endlessness. How can this social order be an analogy?
Joe
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Thu Nov 04 2004 - 20:10:52 GMT