RE: MD New Level of Thinking

From: mel (mbtlehn@ix.netcom.com)
Date: Sun Nov 28 2004 - 00:35:18 GMT

  • Next message: mel: "RE: MD Self"

    Hello Chin,

    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
    [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk] On Behalf Of PhaedrusWolf@aol.com
    Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 11:49 AM
    To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    Subject: Re: MD New Level of Thinking

    Do you ever get the feeling you should have said something else? This is
    what i think i should have said;

    Change is imbedded in DQ. It is what DQ is all about, but it is not an
    awareness of change that doesn't improve Quality, it is an awareness of
    change that does improve Quality. DQ is confined to change, as it can be
    nothing else, other than SQ, and the observance of change in SQ becomes
    the DQ, either in agreement or opposition.

    DQ is awareness in its observance. Where the observer stands depends on
    where the observer stands, just as the Quality of a picture comes from
    where the observer, photographer stands. Our awareness of change stands
    on our DQ/SQ observance, or where we stand on our DQ/SQ observance.

    Am i out of line?

    mel:
    From a certain point of view change appears to be
    some wondrous thing that has been discovered and
    it appeared so magical that a noun was invented to
    invest with the notion.

    However, given what we know now of the world,
    and entropy, the more amazing notion is that
    there could ever be something that remains the
    same.

    It might now be more useful to recognize that in
    all of the extant world change 'is'. In any sufficiently
    fine comparison of two things or of one memory of
    a perception of a thing to another memory of the
    perception of it, the difference we register is the
    definition of the change we see.

    **The earlier statement that we seem to remain the
    same seems both wrong and to my view nonsense.
    As a being that is a point of view of consciousness
    'right now in the present' of the universe it seems I
    am like a surfer in that the shifting awareness is always
    of all experiential changes unfolding in relation to each
    other and to my changing memory of them.

    [ ** This statement:
    What Pirsig's levels does not address is *awareness* of change. The
    continuity I am speaking of is that sense of self which is aware of
    change.
    So for this to address this would imply that the inorganic is aware of
    the
    biological, the biological of the social, etc.Obviously, "some things
    change, and some things stay the same", which can be restated as some
    change happens within slower change. But where does awareness of change
    come from? That is not at all obvious. ]

    As to your assertion that
    "DQ is awareness in [the] observance [of change.]"
    It is intriguing, but after considering it I question whether
    it limits DQ to existing in an empirical world rather than
    in being itself and its relation to mom-being in the Buddhist
    sense, which seems correct to me.

    Does that question make sense?

    thanks--mel

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