RE: MD New Level of Thinking

From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Mon Nov 29 2004 - 11:51:00 GMT

  • Next message: Sam Norton: "Re: MD James, Pirsig, Mysticism"

    Scott,

    > > Godel showed it as being contradictory in proving there's no such thing
    > >as proof.
    >
    > Well, no. It proves that there exist arithmetical statements that are true
    > but unprovable, which means that arithmetic is incomplete.

    "It proves . . .unprovable" was my point.
     
    > But he falls off the Middle Way when he says: "the mystical goal is to
    > experience pure DQ by putting all SQ to sleep". [Ch. 30] My position is
    > that there is no "pure DQ".

    Is that a verbatim quote? I can't find it. Anyway, he simply means to have a
    mystic experience requires stopping one's internal chattering intellect for
    awhile.

    > > "Quality is a direct experience independent of and prior to intellectual
    > > abstractions.Quality is indivisible, undefinable and unknowable in the
    > > sense that there is a knower and a known, but a metaphysics can be none
    > of
    > > these things."(Lila, 5) Pirsig then goes on, for the purpose of
    > > intellectualizing, to divide Quality into DQ and SQ instead of Subjects
    > > and Objects. Perhaps it's unfortunate, but thinking (which is necessary
    > > for our survival) requires that we break up awareness and rearrange it
    > > into manageable patterns of meaning.
    >
    > I argue that Quality breaks up things to create things. Intellect does as
    > well. To abstract is a creative act. Yet Pirsig continually treats
    > intellect as something negative with respect to Quality, as in the above.

    I don't see where he views intellect as negative. He enjoys doing
    metaphysics.

    Platt

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