From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Mon Nov 29 2004 - 11:51:00 GMT
Scott,
> > Godel showed it as being contradictory in proving there's no such thing
> >as proof.
>
> Well, no. It proves that there exist arithmetical statements that are true
> but unprovable, which means that arithmetic is incomplete.
"It proves . . .unprovable" was my point.
> But he falls off the Middle Way when he says: "the mystical goal is to
> experience pure DQ by putting all SQ to sleep". [Ch. 30] My position is
> that there is no "pure DQ".
Is that a verbatim quote? I can't find it. Anyway, he simply means to have a
mystic experience requires stopping one's internal chattering intellect for
awhile.
> > "Quality is a direct experience independent of and prior to intellectual
> > abstractions.Quality is indivisible, undefinable and unknowable in the
> > sense that there is a knower and a known, but a metaphysics can be none
> of
> > these things."(Lila, 5) Pirsig then goes on, for the purpose of
> > intellectualizing, to divide Quality into DQ and SQ instead of Subjects
> > and Objects. Perhaps it's unfortunate, but thinking (which is necessary
> > for our survival) requires that we break up awareness and rearrange it
> > into manageable patterns of meaning.
>
> I argue that Quality breaks up things to create things. Intellect does as
> well. To abstract is a creative act. Yet Pirsig continually treats
> intellect as something negative with respect to Quality, as in the above.
I don't see where he views intellect as negative. He enjoys doing
metaphysics.
Platt
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