From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Tue Nov 30 2004 - 15:52:28 GMT
Scott,
> > I think Godel's Theorem and Wilber's interpretation of it are relevant to
> > the issue you raise.
>
> I don't. Mathematics is unique in that it is self-contained. It is not
> about anything other than itself. Furthermore, intellect in general is not
> constrained by mathematical logic, while any system that Godel's Proof
> applies to is so constrained.
Intellect to be worth a fig is constrained by logic. No philosopher is
going to get very far influencing his peers with an illogical argument.
> Both you and Pirsig seem to think that intellect's primary function is
> to describe. I don't. I think its primary function is to create, while
> description is a partial means to that end. Any particular system will have
> limits, of course. But intellect can create new systems. And, getting
> esoteric, I think that when Intellect creates new systems, it creates
> realities. As we do in a limited way.
I think intellect "creates" only in response to the creative force of DQ.
Intellect cannot create the premises upon which it operates. The premises
come from flashes of intuitive insight, i.e., responses to DQ. Without
such premises, intellect runs around in circles, chasing its own tail and
winds up with such paradoxes as "The body is a constant where nothing
stays put."
> > Intellect builds walls; DQ is "something that doesn't like a wall," to
> > borrow from Robert Frost. Both are needed.
> Intellect builds and tears down walls, so it is DQ as well as SQ. Without
> distinctions (walls) there isn't anything. It is by building walls that one
> gets reality. Otherwise, there is only chaos.
Without walls there is everything at once--pure awareness. Human intellect
erects walls to create a reality that it can manipulate to ensure its own
survival. (Reality for a worm is a lot different than reality for fish
much less a human.) Chaos is simply that part of total reality intellect
can't wrap it's walls around to make a meaningful pattern. The reality
that intellect's walls encompass and projects to we observers is a pseudo
reality at best, though useful to the situation we find ourselves in.
Platt
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