Anti-Theism (was MD Is Morality Relative?)

From: Ian Glendinning (
Date: Wed Dec 01 2004 - 13:25:32 GMT

  • Next message: Platt Holden: "Re: MD Is Morality Relative?"


    (Agreed, morailty is, relatively speaking, relative, for those of us with
    the MoQ in our armoury.)

    Anti-theism ?
    Whilst I make no bones about being extremely ant-theist, I am in fact very
    open to religious thought.
    In fact I find "religious leaders" priests, rabbis whatever, being naturally
    spiritual, educated and thoughtful people, speak far more sense than most
    politicians and other people in public life. My wife cannot understand for
    example, given my anti-theism, why I religiously tune in to BBC Radio 4's
    daily god-slot known as "Thought for the Day", but I do, and I do genuinely
    it for edification and inspiration, not for scorn and derision. It's not
    surprising given the history of religions (even theist ones) that they have
    a wealth of good moral advice, which those with a brain can filter and apply
    thoughfully to 21st century life. I've not found a thoughtful religious
    spokesperson who, publicly outside a church context, seems to feel it
    necessary to ram the "god" and "purposeful intelligent superbeing" aspects
    down anyone's throats beyond the metaphorical.

    What I am is anti-"literal"-theism, of which there seems to be very little
    this side of the pond, but a frightening amount the other side.
    (It's a cop-out, a complete fantasy to plug gaps in knowledge, and stop
    "people" asking awkward questions. It's designed to pour concrete around
    both SQ and DQ. It's political, it's conservative of state authority, it's
    stultifying, it's evil, and it's absolutely terrifying. I'm personally
    confortable with not knowing everything. "I don't know, but isn't it
    wonderful" is a valid answer to any question IMHO.)

    (I will, and was already planning, to read the sermon you recommended.

    I keep hoping to find most American theist zealots actually share Bill Hicks
    sense of humour (with thanks to Ant McWatt), and one day I'll get the joke,
    but I fear that will not prove to be the case.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: <>
    To: <>
    Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 12:56 AM
    Subject: Re: MD Is Morality Relative?

    > Ham to Ian
    > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 7:55 PM
    > Subject: Re: MD Is Morality Relative?
    > > Ham,
    > >
    > > "MOQ holds to the view that morality is relative" ?
    > > Agreed.
    > >
    > > "It is ... contrary to the MOQ to foster moral behavior" ?
    > > Hardly.
    > > It offers an evolving basis for judging relative morality / quality.
    > > encouraged to use it. MoQ certainly does not foster immorality, it
    > a
    > > way of deciding moral choices. (Clearly, though, MoQ doesn't foster any
    > > absolute morality.)
    > All morality is relative. Since your Quality is what I call Value and
    > call Goodness, it is relative to man's conscious awareness which is the
    > raison d'etre of existence. Indeed, the platonic "highest good" may be
    > absolute goal of morality -- if only we knew what that was! So, if by
    > MOQ we can encourage "goodness", certainly no one can say it's a bad
    > > "Man is autonomous in his ability to choose" ?
    > > Subject only to physical possibility, an individual human is autonomous,
    > > true. How good (moral) his choice is can be judged by the rest of us
    > > the MoQ. Freedom (DQ) is good, within the framework of MoQ, but not in
    > > absolutey unbounded anything-goes, anarchic way.
    > Good. I take it from your remarks, then, that "relatively speaking"
    > morality is relative -- at least for MOQers.
    > You really should read Edington's sermon, Ian. I guarantee you will find
    > nothing in it that offends your anti-theist sensitivities.
    > Cordially,
    > Ham
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