Re: MD People and Value in the MOQ

From: Sam Norton (
Date: Fri Dec 03 2004 - 09:21:33 GMT

  • Next message: Sam Norton: "Re: MD Static and dynamic aspects of mysticism and religious experience"

    Hi Chin,

    Catching up on some old posts. We were talking about Lila.

    > I must agree with your thinking, but I still see it as a sellout. By
    > conforming to everyone else's realities, it would seem you limit your creative
    > talents in understanding, or becoming enlightened to DQ. I do however agree that
    > DQ can only be stacked upon SQ, and as DQ is discovered, it still does not
    > eliminate SQ unless it is in contrast to a static pattern that turns out to be
    > inadequate.
    > Are you saying that Lila would be better off not turning her back on SQ
    > until she fully understood it to the point it is no longer a force in her life
    > that she has to contend with? Do you really think they can keep them down on the
    > farm after they have seen Paris? :o)

    I think that - astonishing as it might sound, as I normally disagree with him so much - DMB got this
    right in his post of 22nd November in this thread. "She needs some static patterns to encase her
    freedom, he says. She needs to get a life, a job and cash a paycheck. She needs the rituals of daily
    life rather than this unanchored drifting." Those things which seem so mundane to us were in all
    probability life-giving to her.

    > How does the Protestant culture fit into this idolizing of the Dynamic?

    Are you familiar with the phrase 'adrenaline junkie'? Someone who has such a rush from a particular
    experience (bungee jumping or whatever) that they continue to seek out that rush doing more and more
    exotic exercises. The Lutheran revolution was a huge DQ step forward from a corrupt and suffocating
    set of SQ patterns, but I believe there are certain historical inheritances from that period which
    are no longer DQ, but have in fact become their own form of SQ, principally the assumption that the
    established church is anti-DQ. As I see it there is an element in Protestant derived cultures which
    causes hostility to SQ patterns, especially ones associated with a hierarchy. I think this is a
    large part of the fuel for a 'free market', it underlies a lot of the US ideology, and it
    particularly shows itself in discussions about the role of the church establishment. The problem is
    that without SQ you degenerate, and I think that has happened in certain circumstances - you could
    say that the drug problem is one of the fallouts from this approach (after all, it is unadulterated
    DQ as some would see it). I think Pirsig calls this problem quite well when he's writing about the

    But then again, maybe I'm just interpreting things through conservative spectacles...


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