Re: MD terrorist blackmail

From: Platt Holden (
Date: Sun Dec 12 2004 - 14:17:48 GMT

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    Dear Wim,

    > In your 10 Dec 2004 20:12:51 -0500 post you did not concede that the
    > social security part of my propsed solution to Islamist terrorism would not
    > imply giving in to terrorist blackmail. Maybe I should have been clearer
    > that -of course- the terrorists themselves should not be on the dole. Once
    > they have committed terrorist acts, they are criminals that have to be
    > dealt with as such. The (globalized) social security system I propose is
    > meant for their (potential) supporters, preventing them to BECOME
    > terrorists themselves.

    The best globalized social security system would not be a welfare program
    but democracy and free markets. That way, people would be encouraged to
    produce, not relieve them of their responsibility for making bad choices
    by providing for them.

    > I already DO pay taxes and contributions to the
    > social security system voluntarily. There's no policeman needed to collect
    > them from me and from 99,999% of the Dutch. Of course there IS a real risk
    > of getting a policeman at your door when you don't pay. Without that risk
    > the percentage of voluntary payments might fall to say 99%. Another 9%
    > might be tempted to profit from that situation even though they agree that
    > they would be immoral doing so. Even then 90% of the Dutch would
    > voluntarily pay from 'their money' (hard-earned or not) a social security
    > system that prevents people from falling into poverty if the economy
    > doesn't need their labour.

    So why not make it voluntary? Think of the enforcement money you would
    save that could be used to feed the hungry.
    >'Democracy is a punishment we inflict upon our enemies,
    > like Afghanistan and Iraq. It is not something we give our friends. Egypt,
    > Tunesia, Saudi-Arabia, most of the coutries in the region, have been
    > shortening the reins. Partly because of that the US have lost almost all
    > credibility in the region. Even good plans and ideas will be thwarted just
    > because they originate form the US.' Spreading democracy by luring
    > countries into the EU seems a more effective way to me than enforcing
    > democracy by war.

    What has transpired in Afghanistan belies this statement. We shall see
    what transpires in Iraq, and then the other countries in the Middle East.
    I think the wave of the future is with democracy and capitalism, not more

    > The obligation to spend 0,7% of GNP on development aid for all OECD members
    > is one the USA took upon itself as UN and OECD member in 1970, but never
    > observed. You can read the history of this obligation in
    > . It was an outflow of the Marshall
    > plan thinking.

    The U.S. is the OECD's largest contributor with 25% of the annual budget.
    Typically, others want the U.S. to kick in more.
    > Whether UN and a Global Court of Justice represent US values seems to be
    > bitterly disputed among Americans. Kerry-voters seem to have different
    > 'American values' than Bush-voters.

    Yes. And the Bush-voters won.

    > A good social security system doesn't free people from having to earn a
    > living if they can. At least in the Netherlands social security payments
    > are gradually reduced if the receiver doesn't seriously apply for jobs or
    > tries to find other ways to make a living. Sometimes people are even set to
    > work in socially useful ways if they don't find a job themselves and want
    > to stay on the dole.

    "Social Security" to Americans refers specifically to a New Deal
    government retirement program (actually a Ponsi scheme) that is rapidly
    going broke. By "social security" you apparently mean what we politely
    call "welfare," otherwise known as a "freebie" or a "handout." It helps to
    be reminded from time to time that no nation was ever built by its
    citizens seeking handouts.


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