From: Adam Watt (adamwatt@mac.com)
Date: Mon Jan 24 2005 - 22:33:02 GMT
Hmm... Interesting post. Certainly compared to some the recent low
quality plattitudinous nonsense..
Well, democracy these days is largely fallacious, if it was ever
anything else. Capitalism is not Democratic. Closer to racketeering..
That much I agree on, if indeed that's what your saying.
Any speculation or voicing of opinion is pointless unless you have
significant power to exercise. Or just enjoy it.. kind of like amateur
dramatics. Nothing wrong with that. One other advantage to this type of
political debate that occurs to me is in it's unsurpassed ability to
quickly ascertain the perspective of a person more generally, but
imagining you can alter that perspective is i think limited, in the
vast majority, to imagination. The only power most people really have
is their power as consumers.
Regards Bilderberg, mostly talk on the subject is varies from idle
speculation to less idle mad stuff.. Re: Timothy McVeigh.. Your 'facts'
are a little off though..
The Bilderberg group is infact named after the hotel in Holland where,
in 1954, the group had the first of their since annual 4 day meetings.
The attendees differ from year to year, and are sworn to secrecy. As
far as I know Charles Kennedy has never made the grade...
Last year, apparently, BP boss John Browne, US senator John Edwards and
Mrs Bill Gates are among the invitees. People who have been in the past
include the likes of Henry Kissinger (a regular), Prince Charles, Bill
Clinton, Donald Rumsfeld, Peter Mandelson, Kenneth Clarke, King Juan
Carlos and Lord Black.
They don't promote their activities (no official site..), but they're
effectively an open secret, largely because of the high profile
attendees.
The official line regarding the secrecy states it exists to "facilitate
vibrant, uninhibited informal discussion". Makes sense to me.
Freemasons are just a rich white boy club, basically. I don't buy all
the bullshit about 'ancient and esoteric knowledge' for a minute..
Powerful? sure.
Does Billderberg conspire on the fate of the world? Well, that's what
very rich and powerful people are able to do, that's capitalism. No big
shock there then.. The official line is that 'no decisions are taken
there'. That may be true. It may not. Who knows. Decisions are
certainly taken somewhere, the 'will of the people' bears at best small
influence on what those decsions are (your main point i think), so
there seems as good a place as any other really.. Interestingly, one of
the four founders of the group was the one time Labour Party chancellor
Dennis (now Lord) Healy, a considerably more left wing politician than
would ever hold office in the UK now, or that even exists in the US to
my knowledge.
Here's a short interview with him on the subject, taken from the BBC
link below -
As an up-and-coming statesmen in the 1950s, Denis Healey, who went on
to become a Labour chancellor, was one of the four founding members of
Bilderberg (which was named after the hotel in Holland where the first
meeting was held in 1954).
His response to claims that Bilderberg exerts a shadowy hand on the
global tiller is met with characteristic bluntness. "Crap!"
"There's absolutely nothing in it. We never sought to reach a consensus
on the big issues at Bilderberg. It's simply a place for discussion,"
says Lord Healey.
Formed in the spirit of post-war trans-Atlantic co-operation, the idea
behind Bilderberg was that future wars could be prevented by bringing
power-brokers together in an informal setting away from prying eyes.
"Bilderberg is the most useful international group I ever attended. The
confidentiality enabled people to speak honestly without fear of
repercussions.
"In my experience the most useful meetings are those when one is free
to speak openly and honestly. It's not unusual at all. Cabinet meetings
in all countries are held behind closed doors and the minutes are not
published."
More obvious than sinister, though I very much doubt discussion is
limited to preventing future wars. Any economist knows war is often
quite beneficial, especially if oil is involved. But I'll speculate no
further..
That activists have seized on Bilderberg is no surprise to Alasdair
Spark, an expert in conspiracy theories.
"Shouldn't we expect that the rich and powerful organise things in
their own interests. It's called capitalism."
Indeedy.
> anyway the good news (and bad) is that everything is
> changing. exactly how...????? my feeling at the moment
> is that we are going through an evolutionary
> bottleneck: those that adapt (tune in) survive; those
> that remain stuck in obsolete realities....
>
> don't get stuck.
Yeah.. exactly how?? Good question, I'm quite aware of propaganda
soit's difficult to be certain, but I feel near certain that global
warming/dimming are real enough.
And that the consequences are grim. Perhaps totally beyond prevention,
I believe 400 parts per million CO2 in the atmosphere is sufficient to
make the process of global warming irreversible.
James Lovelock has much of interest to say on the matter. Are
Bilderberg on the case? I have little faith, and even less evidence.
I'm not sure what 'tuning in' is going to achieve. Or even what that
means.. Unless you mean the shipping forecast.. if there are any
'obsolete realities' left to transmit them from..
No, really if it does get that bad, and well it may, it'll be most
likely beyond this lifetime for me. Maybe that's that.
Political opinion without power is of little consequence. Your choices
and actions as a consuming entity certainly are. They're the only real
power you have.
Beyond that, hedonism seems more sensible by the day to me. And ego
mostly usless.
Have a nice day.
Source links -
http://www.guardian.co.uk/netnotes/article/0,,1231830,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3773019.stm
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38783
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group
http://www.ecolo.org/lovelock/lovebioen.htm
On Monday, January 24, 2005, at 05:51 pm, gav wrote:
> with respect guys,
>
> it amazes me no end how so many of you can spend so
> many hours argiung about left/right wing shit: the
> relative merits of different politics/policies etc
> when, once you dig down a bit, you find that it is all
> a con and pretty much always has been.
>
> i guess pirsig was unaware of this when he wrote his
> books (i dunno if he is now). and i think that if he
> had known he may not have had to lose it to free
> himself.
>
> an example:
> in the uk there are three political parties: the
> labour party, the conservatives and the liberal
> democrats. all three parties are headed by members of
> the bilderberg group: an extremely shady rich and
> powerful club that meets regularly at bilderberg
> (which is in belgium i think). no matter who gets in
> in you are being ruled by the same people with the
> same agenda.
>
> the logos of these three parties are the rose
> (labour), the lighted torch (conservatives), and the
> dove (liberal democrats). all these symbols have
> esoteric meanings related to the lineage of power
> across the centuries. for example the lighted torch (a
> la the statue of liberty) refers to 'illumination' or
> the 'illuminated ones'. this is a freemasonic
> reference: they see themselves (at the highest levels)
> as illuminated because they are privy to ancient and
> esoteric knowledge withheld from the general public.
>
> the statue of liberty was a gift from parisien
> freemasons to american freemasons. it has nothing to
> do with democracy and freedom, in fact it is about the
> opposite. you have to laugh: we have been conned,
> elegantly, for bloody ages.
>
> anyway the good news (and bad) is that everything is
> changing. exactly how...????? my feeling at the moment
> is that we are going through an evolutionary
> bottleneck: those that adapt (tune in) survive; those
> that remain stuck in obsolete realities....
>
> don't get stuck.
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