Re: MD Pure experience and the Kantian problematic

From: Ron Winchester (phaedruswolff@hotmail.com)
Date: Sun Feb 13 2005 - 17:41:18 GMT

  • Next message: Scott Roberts: "Re: MD Pure experience and the Kantian problematic"

    Hi Scott,

    Scott;
    Of course one can't actually know anything without reasoning about what is
    sensed. I thought that was understood, given Pirsig's statement of
    traditional empiricism as "reasoning about what the senses provide".

    Ron;
    My appologies; I didn't realize we were considering how Pirsig was
    describing 'traditional' empiricism. When you speak of "traditional
    empiricism," you are speaking in terms of the generally accepted thesis
    prior to 'empiric' experience such as employed by doctors, which was
    considered quackery? - maybe 17th and 18th century empiricism? -or- are we
    extending it to cover 'empiric' experience?

    Scott;
    The
    thing I object to is what follows, that "empiricism" be extended to cover
    our artistic, moral, and religious experience. And, just to be safe, I
    repeat that this does not imply that I consider that we can't know anything
    about art, morals, and religion. Just that it serves no purpose to extend
    the word "empirical" to cover them, and causes confusion if we do.

    Ron;
    How this extends 'empirical' would be a more modern, generally accepted
    meaning of empiricism to include anything that came from the senses and/or
    'experience'.

    So what you are objecting to is artistic, moralistic and religious
    experiences being included in the term 'experience'?

    -or- Are you objecting to including experience along with what is derived
    from the senses of which you are allowing empirical to include reasoning on
    what is derived from the bodily senses?

    To clarify, I am calling bodily senses that which is separate from mind in a
    mind/body dualistic view.

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