From: hampday@earthlink.net
Date: Sun Feb 27 2005 - 09:41:57 GMT
Arlo--
I wrote:
> In music it [nihilism] has taken the form
> of "punk rock" whose chaotic song patterns and morbid or obscene lyrics
> depict life's meaninglessness and amorality.
You replied:
> While you make many good points about nihilism, the punk is me has to take
> some umbridge at this inaccurate categorization. Rock music has its
origins
> in social protest of injustice and inequality. It became a caricaturish
> mockery of itself when it became commoditized and embraced by the very
> establishment it sought to criticize. "Punk" was a movement in rock to
> strip it of its ridiculous commercial veneer and reclaim it as a form of
> social rebellion.
>
> In this way, "punk" is not nihilistic. Punk is counter-cultural.
Unlike you, I apparently have no 'punk' in me, and thus have a problem
accepting "rock concerts" as anything but riotous behavior energized by
electronically distorted noise that rarely, if ever, takes on the aspects of
music (at least as that term may be applied to an art form).
"Counter-cultural" is too nice: I would call 'punk' and its expression
anti-cultural, animalistic, primitive. If these exhibitionists insist on
being millionaire pop idols at the sacrifice of our cultural heritage, how
do they serve as a model for our youth? To what pit of debauchery do they
conspire to lead us? Forget about what "music is supposed to be" -- what
VALUES are they advocating beyond uninhibited sex, social upheaval, and
revolt against authority? Is there any semblance of personal
responsibility, rationality, or harmony in their call to violence?
> You may, of course, support being a good sheep and embracing social norms,
whatever
> they may be, without any critical lens to the structuring nature of social
> "normalcy". And, if that is they embodiment of anti-nihilism, then perhaps
> that is your choice. But do not confuse rebellion against norms with
nihilism.
Social norms, as you call them, are the refinements of human culture that
have enabled man to become a civilized creature, in large measure by
enhancing his sensibility and intellectual appreciation of the values of
life. Is this not the message of Dynamic Quality to which you MoQers
aspire? The rap 'artist' is an offense to civilization; he wants to tear
it all down and start afresh with a new world order based on a
let-it-all-hang-out, free-love, anti-intellectual mentality. You may see
this as harmless "self-expression"; but the philosophy that it espouses is a
threat to society. Civilization does not advance by eschewing cultural
values and individual responsibility. Indeed, it's precisely the loss of
these values that has led our younger generation into lives of crime,
addiction, unwanted pregnancies and intellectual dysfunction. If you would
apply your "critical lens" to this rebellion against norms, I think you
would see that it is both irrational and nihilistic.
> I think a much better "example" of nihilism and music would be John Cage.
> There is your "chaotic song patterns". The Sex Pistols, The Ramones, The
> Clash... all of these bands use song patterns. To suggest otherwise is
> simply foolish. As to "morbid and obscene lyrics", I can only believe that
> you've never really listened to many of the bands you call "punk".
John Cage was novelistic in his approach to classical music, as were the
electronic composers and the minimalists -- even the atonalists, for that
matter. But they all worked within a structural framework -- even if it was
of their own devising -- and none of them (insofar as I know) were
attempting to destroy the cultural heritage that preceded them.
(You're right; I've never found the punk bands worth listening to.)
> To sum, to rebel against social injustice or normative activity is hardly
> nihilistic.
How is the musician qualified to challenge social norms; does he know
something about "social justice" in his drug-induced stupor that the average
taxpaying citizen doesn't?
This is more than just an aside, Arlo. I totally disagree with your
conclusion. Undermining the values on which a culture is founded, and
offering nothing but social revolution to replace them, is nihilism in its
most blatant form.
Ham
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